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news
Top Member
Canada
2951 Posts |
 Posted - 11/27/2006 : 8:19:07 PM
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November 27, 2006 - NBC30.com, CT - Police have charged a school bus driver involved in a fatal accident with negligent homicide.
Robert Fountain was driving the bus along South Quaker Lane back in October when he hit and killed a 65-year-old man who was crossing the street.
Fountain was on his way to pick up students at Conard High School when the accident happened.
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news
Top Member
Canada
2951 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2006 : 04:33:11 AM
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Report: Driver Tested Positive
November 28, 2006 - Hartford Courant, CT - WEST HARTFORD -- A 48-year-old school bus driver charged with running over and killing substance-abuse outreach worker Dean Carlson last month tested positive for cocaine shortly after the accident, according to court papers.
Robert B. Fountain, of 12 Dale Ave., Bloomfield, is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday on charges of negligent homicide and failure to exercise care to avoid a pedestrian.
"We feel like it's ironic that Dean spent the last 10 years of his life trying to save people from drugs and have them change their way of life and he got killed by someone who was abusing drugs," said Greg Rivera, a co-worker of Carlson's at AIDS Project Hartford.
"It's tragic when someone slips through the cracks and we have to hold Double A Transport accountable," said Bruce Putterman, the vice chairman of the school board. "I imagine we as a board will look at what training programs and screening programs are in place so we can avoid something like this in the future."
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news
Top Member
Canada
2951 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 10:41:43 AM
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Bus Driver Erroneously Issued License
November 30, 2006 - Hartford Courant - The school bus driver who struck and killed a pedestrian in October while driving with cocaine in his system was issued a license from the state Department of Motor Vehicles despite having a criminal record that should have disqualified him.
The agency says it did a background check, but his record initially came back clean.
The DMV was in the process of trying to suspend Robert Fountain's license roughly a month before the accident because it had subsequently learned he had a criminal record -- including a pending narcotics charge--deemed serious enough to bar him from receiving the license in the first place, said William Seymour, the agency spokeman.
But the process to suspend Fountain's school bus license took more than a month, and he was allowed to continue to drive a school bus during that time. As a result, Fountain's license was not suspended until Oct. 25, five days after the fatal accident in West Hartford that killed 65-year-old Dean Carlson.
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ICfan
Top Member
USA
1251 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 2:02:50 PM
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| I just heard this tonite, major changes are on the way from the DMV, which I heard on the news. |
Tyler Roys Weatherman and International Fan,
http://www.freewebs.com/thectschoolbusyard |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 2:41:55 PM
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I meant to touch upon this earlier but haven't had the chance. At least where I work, I was required to pass a drug test before even being allowed behind the wheel. Furthermore, we are all subject to random drug tests at the managers discretion.
I guess I assumed that was law. Is it not????? |
- Ryan |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2006 : 5:56:01 PM
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| It is law to get tested before you get hired for a CDL position as far as I know. Just because someone passed the test when they were hired doesn't necessarily mean they won't start using after that. At my first job, I drove a year and three months without having my name come up for a random drug test... then my second year there my name came up twice within a 3 month period. With the company I'm with now I've been driving for about a year and no drug test... other than when I was hired over a year ago. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 04:45:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lords47
I meant to touch upon this earlier but haven't had the chance. At least where I work, I was required to pass a drug test before even being allowed behind the wheel. Furthermore, we are all subject to random drug tests at the managers discretion.
I guess I assumed that was law. Is it not?????
Correct- however, the manager can order a drug test if they feel there is reason or suspects drug use- but random drug tests are just that "random".
Most of the time, management has no control over who gets drug/alcohol tested during randoms. Your social security numbers are picked (I believe) randomly- and the company that is performing the tests has to have a certain amount of tests performed. Once they reach that amount, they move on to the next company. Some people might get called once a month, while others might only get called once every three years, if that.
I know many people who've been called 4 times a year and some who haven't been tested in years! |
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news
Top Member
Canada
2951 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 10:47:32 AM
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EDITORIALS
DMV Again Misses The Bus
December 3, 2006 - Hartford Courant
The state Department of Motor Vehicles failed at every turn, every signal, every fork in the road, to get a dangerous school bus driver off the road.
The DMV didn't revoke Robert B. Fountain's bus license when the FBI reported his criminal history in September. It took the state agency five days to suspend Mr. Fountain's bus license after he killed a pedestrian on his West Hartford bus route in October - and tested positive for cocaine.
A DMV hearing officer later reissued Mr. Fountain's bus license anyway.
What does it take to speed up this leaden agency and get a menace off the road?
Six years ago, The Courant found that 300 licensed school bus drivers had serious criminal convictions. The DMV promised to fix the screening process.
Thursday, the agency stopped issuing school bus licenses under new questioning from The Courant about the process. It also revoked Mr. Fountain's license to drive a school bus - with any luck, for good this time.
The agency once again promises to review procedures and fix the problems. To judge by Mr. Fountain, those problems are still legion.
In his case, they started with his application in August for a special license to drive a school bus. A state police database failed to show a criminal record. Something is clearly wrong with that database.
For such a hogtied agency, the DMV raced to issue Mr. Fountain the special license - on Sept. 8, three days before the FBI sent in its report. That background check showed a 2005 crack-cocaine charge and convictions for stealing cash and a car.
Mr. Fountain's bus-driving license could have - and should have - been withdrawn on the spot, by law. But the Department of Motor Vehicles held off for a hearing - and then took a leisurely two months to hold it.
What follows almost defies credibility:
Mr. Fountain's first hearing was scheduled for Oct. 25 - five days after he ran over and killed a 65-year-old outreach worker for AIDS Project Hartford with his bus. Oct. 25 was also the day his bus license was (finally!) revoked because of his criminal record. Yet his case was continued to Nov. 21. At that hearing, he talked hearing officer William Grady into giving his bus license back. Either the officer is exceptionally gullible or no one at the DMV told him about Mr. Fountain's accident - or both. All three scenarios are chilling.
The bus company that hired Mr. Fountain has taken hits from the West Hartford school board. But it's hard to fault a small employer for missing in its background checks what the state, with its greater resources, can't catch.
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2006 : 3:06:37 PM
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I have always though that although most state agencies are inefficient, the DMV takes the prize. It seems that they deliberately seek out the dumbest most inept applicants to give positions to. If I thought I was being too hard on them in the past, this thread gives me vindication.
When I was in college, I worked for the California Employment Development Department as a work study and saw how inefficient and incompetent these people were, but they were 1000 per cent better than those at the DMV.
I thought this problem was limited to California, and if anyone of you have relatives working for either of these agencies, they are excluded from my tirade. |
William |
Edited by - william on 12/03/2006 3:08:20 PM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 04:47:09 AM
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When I lived in RI and had to go to the registry, I could go first thing in the morning when they opened (there was usually a line that had already formed outside, but the workers had to socialize for a bit with eachother, help themselves to a cup of coffee and the occasional donut), go in, grab a ticket and head back to work for a few hours. I'd go back around lunch time, and I'd still have to wait around for a bit for them to finally call my ticket number.
The workers were slow, gave you the runaround, were rude to you, and didn't care. They would leave in the middle of helping you for a coffee break. You would often get conflicting advice should you ever have to go back a second time, which was very common. I had even gotten a letter in the mail asking that i return my license plates to the DMV because they had made a mistake issuing those plates because there were 3 other cars in RI with the EXACT same plates! That would have been fun if i had ever gotten pulled over.
It is definately NOT limited to Cali, and its certainly not a tiny problem in the smallest state in the continental US. |
- Ryan |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 05:50:24 AM
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You usually get what you train for. I can find no escape here for management deficiencies at the root of this issue. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 09:11:10 AM
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I have agree JK. Had management consulted his driving record or criminal record prior, this accident would have been avoided. Although I think the original article said it had came back clear the first time. So they may really may not have known. I have never talked in person to a coke addict, so i'm not sure what the symptons would be.
quote:
The agency says it did a background check, but his record initially came back clean.
But I still put a good part of the blame on the driver for not only using drugs, but doing so when he's transporting precious cargo. I don't think William's term of "BOZO" even begins to describe how much of an idiot this driver is. Management shouldn't have to add a caveat in their training that says "Oh by the way, please refrain from illegal drug use". That's just common sense that most of us are blessed with.
But ultimately, the responsibility lies with the driver in the eyes of the court. He struck and killed someone while driving with kids on board, while under the influence of narcotics. No escaping that. |
- Ryan |
Edited by - Lords47 on 12/04/2006 09:21:06 AM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 09:44:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lords47
I have agree JK. Had management consulted his driving record or criminal record prior, this accident would have been avoided. Although I think the original article said it had came back clear the first time. So they may really may not have known. I have never talked in person to a coke addict, so i'm not sure what the symptons would be. ...
Actually I was referring mostly to DMV management, their screwy systems and lackadaisical service. I can agree that transportation management is facing some hard questions in any litigation that comes up but that is separate from criminal charges against the bus driver. That bus driver? Yes, would agree that bus driver is much worse than a typical bozo - criminal fits too well here. Can find no excuse for that sort of activity. Would agree to time in prison and the additional loss of any driving privileges until clean for many years, but never again behind the wheel of a school bus or commercial rig. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/04/2006 09:56:21 AM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2006 : 9:25:34 PM
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I believe that the CT DMV should also be charged with neglilgent homicide as well for their failure to take action before this terrible event happened.
Hmmm, isn't CT supposed to be one of the stricter states on school bus drivers? Have to make sure that our signs say CHARTER and not SCHOOL BUS or we will be pulled over. Maybe they are too worried about little things like that rather than concentrating on big things.
Drug addicts are not bozos. Drug addicts are people suffering from addictions. Drug pushers are the bozos. I've seen people recover from drug hell and make something of their lives. Sad situation that the DMV allowed for this situation to happen. Are they going to face criminal charges as well? The DMV is also responsible for this accident. |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 03:51:37 AM
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To some degree I agree. They weren't an addict when they decided to make the choice to do drugs the first time. The first few times, they are a bozo like no other, and experience a severe lapse of character. Then they become addicted, but most refuse to believe they have a problem, or that they can control it. It BECOMES a disease because the body relies on the chemically induced high. But the decision they consciously made the first time they decided to do drugs... is what makes them a bozo.
In MA, we are also required to change our destination signs to "CHARTER" for non-school related activity trips, and we also have to make sure the type of license plates read "BUS" vice "SCHOOL BUS". |
- Ryan |
Edited by - Lords47 on 12/05/2006 03:53:42 AM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 04:39:57 AM
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I would like you to do me one favor...Call a local drug rehab center and <obviously not for yourself> --:
Ask them something like this: My friend has an addiction to crack-cocaine and is trying to get help with his addiction; do you accept crack cocaine users? (or just cocaine)
Do you know what they will say? Sorry we don't consider crack-cocaine a chemical addiction.
Did this school bus driver TRY to get help? I wonder.
I can tell you, 100% that this is what most if not all places will say (NO). I do volunteer work and I have had a close member of my family in this situation who was addicted to crack- you would not believe how hard it is to seek help for this addiction.
You can get help for heroin, alcoholism, almost anything else, but not crack. One place even told me to have the person that I was trying to help start to drink beer and then bring them into the substance abuse place. So in order for someone on crack-cocaine to get help: you have to turn them into an alcoholic also.
Some people TRY to get help- but the system is so twisted that they make it impossible. So I would like for you to call a few places in the phone book and tell them that you have a friend who is addicted to crack cocaine and is seeking help- please let me know what they say. You don't have to call local places, but they will tell you the same thing. Many of the 800 numbers will direct you to places out of state...but all will tell you the same.
So once again...I have to wonder...Did that SBD try to get help. I've taken many courses that have changed my mind of why I don't believe drug users are bozos- Drugs and society, Chemical Dependency, etc. I know many drug users (as I volunteer at shelters) and believe it or not, those who recover from drug use are productive people of this society. Unfortunately the CT DMV failed.
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/05/2006 04:40:47 AM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 04:59:25 AM
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I understand what you're saying, and I'm sorry you have close family members who were in that situation, but I'm sorry to say i have little sympathy for them. We all know the dangers and consequences of abusing drugs and alcohol. we've all been educated what can happen and that our health could decline. We all know its illegal. Yet... for some reason, even knowing the dangers, some people still CHOOSE to pick up that crack pipe and take a hit. I'm sorry to say it, but I really think its their own fault.
Hopefully your family member was fortunate enough to get themself out of that situation. |
- Ryan |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 09:21:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
... Drug addicts are not bozos. Drug addicts are people suffering from addictions. Drug pushers are the bozos. I've seen people recover from drug hell and make something of their lives.
Odd addiction of no choice? I suppose people get addicted to cancer and so forth? Just get up one morning and decide to deliberately shoot-up with live cancer cells or some other horrific disease of some sort. When suffering from drug or alcohol addictions behind the wheel of any vehicle it makes sense to suffer no license until clean for many years -- and no school bus or commercial license ever again when discovered loaded while driving those vehicles. Distributors do not exist without willing customers. Regardless, for the very involved distributors of the worst drugs would not argue with these facing capital punishment if their activities resulted in deaths. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 3:56:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
Hmmm, isn't CT supposed to be one of the stricter states on school bus drivers? Have to make sure that our signs say CHARTER and not SCHOOL BUS or we will be pulled over. Maybe they are too worried about little things like that rather than concentrating on big things.
Do they tell you that about us up in MA? I'll tell you what... I don't even think my company owns any destination signs that say CHARTER and we run over 600 buses. Last summer I was driving drunk camp counselors back to camp during the wee hours of the morning in a bus that said SCHOOL BUS. We did these runs with multiple buses several nights a week, we've been doing it for two years now, and none of us have ever gotten pulled over on account of our destination signs. Most the cops in this state don't know their ass from their elbow when it comes to laws regarding school buses. The DMV inspectors are what you've got to watch out for because they usually are much more familiar with the laws... but chances are you won't come across them on the road. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 4:21:51 PM
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I am in no way defending the actions of the school bus driver who killed the pedestrian. He should have not been in that school bus.
No apology is needed for my family member who was on drugs. Many people are using drugs that you probably don't even know about! Maybe it is their own fault? Usually drug use starts when they are young- My family member started when he/she was 14, so, let's blame every 14 year old (or younger) for their drug problems. [do the research, if you want or if that is a topic that interests you]-
Of course, we all have our own opinions.
[article]People on Drugs
One reason people often give for taking drugs is that it makes them feel good. Actually, it does feel good because most drugs act directly on the limbic, or "pleasure center," in the brain. Some might light up a cigarette at a party. They might not consider themselves to be a "smoker," but they do it to feel good or to "look cool." Someone might smoke pot at their friend's house because......
People take drugs to change the way they feel. Often they want to change their situation. If they're depressed, they want to become happy. If they are stressed or nervous, they want to relax....
1. People on drugs use them because they want to fit in.
Nobody wants to be the only one not participating. No one....
2. People on drugs use them because they want to escape or relax.
You'll hear a lot of people saying things like "I'm so stressed, I need to get messed up!" or "Drugs ....
3. People on drugs use them because they're bored.
Lots of people turn to drugs for a little excitement because they say there's ....
4. People on drugs use them because the media says it's cool.
Even though there's an anti-drug ad on every minute, and more rock stars and ball players than you can shake a stick at tell you to stay away from drugs, the truth is the entertainment world still manages ....
5. People on drugs use them because they think it makes them seem grown-up.
This is one ....
6. People on drugs use them because they want to rebel.
Sometimes ....
7. People on drugs use them because they want to experiment.
It's human nature to want to....
Many people don't become addicted to drugs, but may continue to do drugs for the same reasons they started: because they want to fit in, because they want to escape....
For other people on drugs, once they've started using drugs, they become physically or mentally addicted. They want more. In fact, they feel like they NEED more! Eventually, trying to get drugs becomes the most important thing in their lives. It uses up all their time, money, and energy and really hurts people they're close to.
Media reports and official publications have frequently portrayed people on drugs as lacking self-esteem, unable to resist peer pressure, seeking oblivion, rejecting traditional norms, anti-social and willing to violate ...
http://www.drug-rehabs.org/people-on-drugs.htm
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/05/2006 4:25:33 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 6:34:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
... One reason people often give for taking drugs is that it makes them feel good. Actually, it does feel good because most drugs act directly on the limbic, or "pleasure center," in the brain. ...
Exercise can accomplish a similar high without drugs injected into the body. My Mrs. usually runs at least thirty-minutes per day. She can get a bit grumpy when not running for a few days.
The point is that there are many healthy options to the unhealthy acts of injecting a so-called disease into the body.
Lots of people are depressed and suffer all sorts of anomalies, practically everyone in the country at one point or another - mutable times in their lives.
Scientific data? There is so-called scientific data that says having sex with very young children is beneficial when the child gives permission. And even United States Supreme Court Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg wants to legalize sexual privacy to children as young as twelve-years of age. That means the child's sexual conduct is not then even the business of that child's parents. Under such a law a child would have the right to engage in sexual activities with a person of any age twelve or above if the child wanted or had some addiction to do so?
There is lots of crap science out there.
I see drugs as a free choice - once made then more than one price is often paid. In this thread's case that driver ought to suffer never again licensed to drive a school bus or any commercial vehicle.
Someone with type-two diabetes can not drive a school bus. Would think the same would at least apply to those that abused drugs.
Kill someone while behind the wheel of a school bus and while loaded up on some so-called artificially injected disease ought to bring a penalty not soon removed, if ever removed concerning driving a school bus ever again. (jk)
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/05/2006 6:59:04 PM |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 6:50:53 PM
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| Yes there are many people on drugs that I'm not even aware of. I worked at a restaurant one winter... and just found out that the owner has and has had a problem with cocaine. But all of these people with drug problems made a conscious decision to start on their own. Whether it's a lack of willpower to resist peer pressure, or whether it's an inability to effectively cope with the problems in their lives, they decided on their own to take the "easy way out" and start doing drugs. I have little sympathy for them, we are all warned of the dangers of drugs starting as early as Kindergarten and continuing on through school. I have a friend who just started using crack and cocaine January of this year... I stopped talking to her. I have no respect for that. And yes I do consider her a bozo. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 6:56:24 PM
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I wasn't aware of Judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg and his attempt to legalise sexual privacy to children as young as twelve. I tried doing a google search but I couldn't find much, it just said that he was 85 years old, and the sites that I found were all blogs.
Maybe he will retire from the SJC.
JK: you make a good point, but one that I can't agree with. Yes, you are right, someone with Type 2 diabetes can not drive a school bus...but the same would at least apply to those that abusED drugs (is false).
I believe that -- "Once a drug abuser- not always a drug abuser."
I know truthfully, many school bus drivers, present, who have in the past, have hit rock bottom, abused drugs, admitted to abusing drugs, "recovered drug users" or some might refer to them as ex-junkies (the put down name) who drive school buses just as well as any of us do and they are wonderful people who overcame the odds that society placed upon them.
Yes, you are right, some of this data is bull and you are right too- it is a choice to shoot up or smoke crack or inject yourself with drugs- a wrong choice that many make. It's behind what you can't see that has turned someone to drugs-
Drugs ruin lives, there is no question about it- but a mistake shouldn't lead to a death sentence -
As far as this school bus driver who was under the influence of drugs- I agree- he should never be allowed to drive a bus again.
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/05/2006 7:05:22 PM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 7:02:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BBInt.10
Yes there are many people on drugs that I'm not even aware of. I worked at a restaurant one winter... and just found out that the owner has and has had a problem with cocaine. But all of these people with drug problems made a conscious decision to start on their own. Whether it's a lack of willpower to resist peer pressure, or whether it's an inability to effectively cope with the problems in their lives, they decided on their own to take the "easy way out" and start doing drugs. I have little sympathy for them, we are all warned of the dangers of drugs starting as early as Kindergarten and continuing on through school. I have a friend who just started using crack and cocaine January of this year... I stopped talking to her. I have no respect for that. And yes I do consider her a bozo.
For "them"
"bozo"
"Them" are people
If you were her friend, you might consider calling her and asking if she was okay? Wait, I forgot...you have no respect for "that"
Because "those people" are "bozos"
And if a child on your school bus was high on crack, would you consider that child a bozo too?
How many kids in Providence, Hartford, Boston, LA, Seattle, DC ride school buses high on marijuana? Are they all bozos? Unhelpable? |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/05/2006 7:08:25 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 7:30:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
... Drugs ruin lives, there is no question about it - but a mistake shouldn't lead to a death sentence -
As far as this school bus driver who was under the influence of drugs- I agree - he should never be allowed to drive a bus again.
Abusing drugs should not lead to a death sentence for anyone else, but it does anyway. Big distributors of the worst drugs I believe are worthy of capital punishment - not necesarily their users.
Get hooked. Get off it period and before ever becoming a school bus driver that then commits a death sentence to someone else. That is the boundary I hold to when believing that bus driver ought to be barred from ever driving school bus again.
Ginsburg's opinion came up in an interview some years ago. She was highly involved in the ACLU at the time Clinton appointed her. The ACLU wants children's right to sexual privacy lowered to age thirteen, while Justice Ruth Bater Ginsburg said she wants children's right to sexual privacy lowered to age twelve. Either of these ideas made law would create a huge gap in parental rights to intervene in their children's sexual inclinations. Link to her profile.
FREE School Bus Safety Ads & Photo Library
Post Check, Hostage Takeover, Bus Fire and special effects photos now available Free to use at websites, in newsletters, memos, the local press, letters to parents and more. This is a very popular Website. If you can't get in bookmark the page and try again later.
There is no school bus driver shortage!
Properly train, effective support and pay that retains. |
Edited by - JK on 12/05/2006 7:34:17 PM |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 7:58:17 PM
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80Amtram, I imagine Justice Ginsburg, the second woman nominated to the U.S Supreme Court, will be surprised to discover that she is a he. On the one hand you say you're not defending these druggies but then lapse into sounding like a bleeding heart liberal.
I abhor drug abusers as well as drug pushers, but despicable as they may be, these pushers exist because of the druggies. Kill the druggies and run the pusher out of business? No, I'm not saying that, but the notion that drug pushers lurk around every corner waiting to enslave the unwitting is just a myth.
People are hooked on drugs because they don't have the will power to quit taking them. |
William |
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BBInt.10
Top Member
USA
1042 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 8:22:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4
And if a child on your school bus was high on crack, would you consider that child a bozo too?
How many kids in Providence, Hartford, Boston, LA, Seattle, DC ride school buses high on marijuana? Are they all bozos? Unhelpable?
Yes I would. Marijuana is the gateway drug... my friend started with that, then went heavy with that, then moved on to crack and cocaine. I've come to the conclusion that you can only control the actions of one person in life... and that's yourself. I have done my best to help her move several times, and last time we saw each other (last December) we got in a fight because I told her I thought that one of the guys she was associating with was bad news. This is the same guy that, shortly after that, gets her started with the crack and the cocaine. This is the same guy that she ends up calling the cops on this spring because he assaulted her. I've tried being a friend, but I think that at some point it's best to distance yourself from such trouble, and let the people hit rock bottom on their own so they can WANT to make the changes in their life that are necessary. |
If all your problems are behind you... you must be a school bus driver. |
Edited by - BBInt.10 on 12/05/2006 8:27:15 PM |
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JK
Top Member
USA
7307 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2006 : 11:07:06 PM
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Not certain who the bozos might be - adults or kids on drugs. What I can accept is no excuse for it.
And I do not believe that marijuana is a gateway drug, no more so than would be alcohol, tobacco or furniture polish. The unsupervised corrupt mind is the gateway.
Have also known plenty that smoked grass and did not advance to the hard-core drugs.
I've seen marijuana have a direct impact on pain in cancer patients - very odd that the effect would allow a cancer patient to remain coherent while it can drunken a healthy person.
I've seen how a controlled amount of booze can help comfort senior citizen alcoholics.
In both cases these drugs helped keep them coherent and pain free. Marijuana can eliminate the need for morphine in cancer patients. Have seen it work on people that didn't previously smoke or drink. Rather odd watching an old women try to smoke marijuana when not a previous smoker of tobacco.
When the body is healthy is when these drugs seem to cause the most harm. I adamantly disagree with the physically healthy ingesting a milder illegal drug such as marijuana.
Common household products, cleaners, etc. are becoming common inhalants among kids as well. How is that stuff blocked from huffers?
And meth? A most dangerous drug that is difficult to break. After some years on that stuff, even when permanently off that crap the person remains agitated. They make great janitors when no longer consuming meth - but I see no gain in that. (jk)
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Properly train, effective support and pay that retains.
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Edited by - JK on 12/05/2006 11:08:33 PM |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 03:29:33 AM
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William: Thanks for the clarification and hope that she stays away from me (Judge Badger).
JK: Maybe her stands on the issue of lowering the sexual age limit has to do with her age, she is almost 80-maybe time for retirement.
BBInt: In my youth years, I would say from ages 17-20 I smoked only pot <not very much, but I did> Nothing compared to my friends, who were high all of the time on extacy, shrooms, you name it- oh and they loved acid. Does that make me a bad person for smoking pot? I don't think so. I might be one of the few who actually admit to doing it. Was I a school bus driver then? Of course not. Did I get sick of smoking pot, of course I did. Did I do any other drug besides that? Never, I was too smart to do that- however, some people don't have the will power in them not to. They are brought down different roads. Sometimes I am stubborn and refuse to accept other people's viewes, such as others are too, and believe that some people deserve to be helped- and don't consider all people who are drug addicts bozos.
I am not saying that every person on drugs is saveable, but many people are, if intervention is sought early enough. Ok, you did call your friend and yes, the best thing you can do is to stay out of it (as I might be contradicting myself but I mis understood your post in the beginning)- people who are abusing drugs want to WANT the help before they can accept the help.
(not spell or grammar checked or even proof read!) no time |
Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/06/2006 03:30:03 AM |
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Lords47
Top Member
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 04:31:13 AM
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quote:
(not spell or grammar checked or even proof read!) no time
.. Yet not bad at all :)
I have to full heartedly agree with Dave on EVERYTHING he's posted. Many (not all) people who start off with marijuana get tired of it. It's often times leads them to try something harder, try new means of a high, that’s why its often referred to as the doorway drug. Its hard when you see a child abusing drugs because they are setting themselves up for a nasty life. They could be potentially destroying their lives at too young of an age and ruin any chance to pursue the "American dream". No matter how much you try to reason with them, they just don't listen to authority, not at a young, rebellious age.
There's a very powerful series on A&E called "Intervention". The show usually follows the life of a hard core drug addict (ones who steal money from family and friends, have lost their jobs because of their addiction and are about to lose their ties from their families) and are almost at rock bottom. Family or significant others get to together with a counselor to give the abusers an ultimatum. Get help or we are cutting you out of our lives. Even with family and friends pleading with them to get help, crying rivers, some still refuse. Most get help though. But its discouraging because so many of them relapse. Most of the abusers are young adults (18-25 years old). But you can see real life people who's choices they have made allowed them to let drugs control their life... and ruin it. They live for nothing but finding a way to get high. Steal money; prostitute themselves, its terrible... But they did it to themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by William
People are hooked on drugs because they don't have the will power to quit taking them
You're absolutely right, 100%
Obviously not everyone is that bad, but there's enough people out there who are.
What 80AmtranRE4 said is sadly extremely common. Many kids in school try smoking pot at that age. It's unfortunate that its that readily available to youth, it sickens me actually, but pot smoking in school is more forgivable than the rest. Some try new ways of getting high through over the counter drugs, or cleaning products. What was the latest one going around? They would suffocate each other for the dizzy feeling??? Its foolish. Why are so many kids so adamant about getting high? There is certainly no shortage of Drug and alcohol awareness education.
But the DUMBEST person who abuses drugs is someone who KNOWS they are doing wrong yet still gets behind the wheel of a bus.
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bosslady
Advanced Member
USA
336 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 05:39:57 AM
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I guess I will jump in and give my 2 cents worth. You know what they say about opinions? !!!
I have no sympathy for anyone on drugs or any kind of addiction for that matter. They CHOOSE to take drugs, drink, smoke, etc.
My father was a great guy in so many ways and could have been a great husband and father, but he was an alcoholic who basicly ruined our family life and childhood. He couldn't stay away from it.
He died in his 50's. He had so many health problems from his drinking and smoking.
They say children of alcoholics have a much greater chance of becoming an alcoholic themselves. As JK says "Rubbish". There are 4 children in our family and none of us would ever ruin our lives or the lives of our children and grandchildren with alcohol or any other drug. Two never drink at all and two only have a social drink on occasion.
I have a sister who smokes even though she knows both parents had numerous health problems including cancer that were directly related to their smoking and/or drinking and caused their death. She's one who never drinks, however.
I love my family too much to die at an early age or any age because of some addiction. I want to be around for them as long as possible.
Even though I have many good memories of my father, I have many memories that most children should not experience, all because of his drinking.
Why do people have to be high or drugged up to experience life. I also have a more distant family member by marriage who got hooked on downers and wanted to sleep her life away. I don't understand that addiction either. My high is looking at the beautiful face of my little 6 month old great-granddaughter or to have one of my grandchildren tell me how much they love me. Now that's a real "high."
Do I consider anyone who is addicted to drugs or alcohol a Bozo? I would have to say "yes". I have seen first hand what it can do to families and anyone who would drive a school bus while under the influence and put people's life in jeopardy is more than a "Bozo." They would have to delete my post if I told you what I really thought of him.
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 2:08:55 PM
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I've read through all the posts, and I know that many drug abuses and alcoholics do bad things. Someone failed to intervene- and it's too bad. I once again want to make it clear that I do not at all give one ounce of sympathy to the SBD who drove that bus and ran over that man in CT. Why the CT-DMV failed to pull his license is beyond belief.
My point is: Some people turn to drugs to escape misery- pain, pain that was not their fault, such as child sexual abuse, growing up in a violent urban environment, seeing close ones killed <this is all real>. Maybe I've been forced to do too much research on these topics- some I wish I never wished to be true... Like children in NYC who live in gang infested areas who watch their family members murdered, or are just prone to drug use because their parents do it. That is the population I am speaking of.
I refuse to call all drug users and alcoholics’ bozos. I do know what it is like to try to help someone who doesn't want to be helped- Believe me; the drugs take over that person like you wouldn't believe. I've lost lots of money <but I forgive and realize that drugs make people do things they wouldn't have done> However, there is always a line that people must never cross when they are on drugs- and once they have crossed that line, they get no respect from me.
My main point is: NOT ALL drug abusers / users are bad people. Some need and want help. Some are doing drugs to escape (I will stop because this isn't psychology 101)
I am sorry for anyone who has had to live with an alcoholic and who's family was messed up because of it. It is not fair.
Then you talk about prostitution. What an awful thing, to have to prostitute for drugs, the addiction to drugs. Then we have people coming over from other countries smuggling drugs over here- People who swallow 300 K grams of crack from Brazil and other countries and come to the US. It's a sick world.
I've seen many homeless people on drugs- is it the governments fault? Our government is so great isn't it (Not!)
Back to the topic: thankfully no children were on that SB when the accident happened.
Yes BBInt: CT is the state that is supposed to give drivers from other states a hard time. I’ve never once had any hard time while driving in CT or any other state. I hardly if ever change my sign, because one time I did it , it made a hissing sound at me. There are too many wires.
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Edited by - 80-RE4 on 12/06/2006 2:12:35 PM |
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 10:02:56 PM
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| Amtran. I bet you look at cigarette smokers as real pariahs, though, don't you? |
William |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 07:06:49 AM
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I had some confusion on the word pariahs, so I looked it up:
- No I don't look at cig. smokers as real pariahs, but I do blame the drug pushers, such as Philip Moris. I know plenty of cig. smokers. I used to smoke cigarettes, I used to smoke them with my friends when I was 12-14 off and on- then when I was 17 and i quit about 5 years ago
I am a cigaholic? yeah because if i smoke just one i will start smoking cigarettes again.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source pa·ri·ah (p#601;-rî'#601;) Pronunciation Key
n.
A social outcast: "Shortly Tom came upon the juvenile pariah of the village, Huckleberry Finn, son of the town drunkard" (Mark Twain).
An Untouchable.
[Tamil pa#7771;aiyar, pl. of pa#7771;aiyan, pariah caste, from pa#7771;ai, festival drum.]
Word History: The word pariah, which can be used for anyone who is a social outcast, independent of social position, recalls a much more rigid social system, which made only certain people pariahs. The caste system of India placed pariahs, also known as Untouchables, very low in society. The word pariah, which we have extended in meaning, came into English from Tamil pa#7771;aiyar, the plural of pa#7771;aiyan, the caste name, which literally means "(hereditary) drummer" and comes from the word pa#7771;ai, the name of a drum used at certain festivals. The word is first recorded in English in 1613. Its use in English and its extension in meaning probably owe much to the long period of British rule in India.
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william
Top Member
USA
1912 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 7:08:09 PM
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| Thanks for the etymology lesson 80Amtran. The reason for my question is that experience has shown that those who understand the dynamics of drug addicts and addiction, have little tolerance for tobacco users who themselves are addicted to a degree. |
William |
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80-RE4
Top Member
USA
5700 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2006 : 8:20:11 PM
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| So because I'm an ex cigarette addict I don't understand drug addiction? I don't understand what you mean. |
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CT - School Bus Driver Charged In Fatal Accident
