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adrian1
Active Member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  3:39:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
a 2000 amtran international and a 2000 ic ce school bus looks the same for some resen i don't know why

Edited by - adrian1 on 10/19/2006 3:46:38 PM

78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  4:20:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

a 2000 amtran international and a 2000 ic ce school bus looks the same for some resen i don't know why


Thats because they are the same

Although in 2000 they were called International CEs or International ICs. Not IC CE

Robert B.

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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  5:56:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Between the AmTran and IC-Corp branding they were considered "International" bodies. The conventional model was called the International IC, IC standing for Integrated Conventional, not Integrated Coach like it is today.

The "International IC" was International's first conventional with a raised dash and a few other ergonomic improvements, one of which ended up being a flop, the famous linear door control.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member

USA
1478 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  7:26:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit GMCBlueBird83's Homepage  Send GMCBlueBird83 an AOL message  Send GMCBlueBird83 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a

IC standing for Integrated Conventional, not Integrated Coach like it is today.



And all this time I thought IC stood for something else, how foolish of me

Edited by - GMCBlueBird83 on 10/19/2006 7:27:17 PM
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Busdude3
Top Member

USA
1178 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  7:27:27 PM  Show Profile  Send Busdude3 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

a 2000 amtran international and a 2000 ic ce school bus looks the same for some resen i don't know why



Are you comparing the 2000 AmTran International 3800 and the 2000/1 International IC?
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Cody
Top Member

United States
1628 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  8:18:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cody's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Busdude3

quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

a 2000 amtran international and a 2000 ic ce school bus looks the same for some resen i don't know why



Are you comparing the 2000 AmTran International 3800 and the 2000/1 International IC?



There are some 2000 Amtran 3800's with the International lable over the door, so I dont know what they would be considered.
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adrian1
Active Member

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  08:56:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
international ic buses and international amtran buses are the same interersting.
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GMCBlueBird83
Top Member

USA
1478 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  10:43:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit GMCBlueBird83's Homepage  Send GMCBlueBird83 an AOL message  Send GMCBlueBird83 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

international ic buses and international amtran buses are the same interersting.



Not exactly. Here is how I know it to be. I'm pretty sure this info is correct.

The International IC came out sometime in 2000 as a 2001 model. It included the restyled front end and the new style dash with raised instrument cluster. While it was possible to get a 3800 chassis with the newly named International body it was nothing more than an AmTran with a new roof logo, all else stayed the same as in the past. Here is an example:
http://www.schoolbusenthusiast.com/december_2004/amtran_3800_2000_Charleroi-AreaSD_jflatt.jpg

Over the course of the four or so years the original International IC/IC CE was on the market it went through a series of minor logo and name changes. The early models just used a basic 'INTERNATIONAL" logo on the roofs like this http://www.schoolbusenthusiast.com/internationalocrp_CE_december.jpg

For 2002 the Navistar Diamond logo was added to the existing logo as seen here:
http://www.schoolbusenthusiast.com/int_ic_2002_dt466_at2000_broward_soflfreight_feb_leftfront.JPG

For 2003 the International body became known as the IC body with the new logo that is still in use today like this one:
http://www.schoolbusenthusiast.com/fall_2005_part4/IC_CE_2003_northwestern_LSD_16_mikep.JPG

And for 2005 the all new IC CE was introduced: http://www.schoolbusenthusiast.com/december_2004/clarkstown_186_leftfront.jpg
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  11:13:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Very good Lee. Someone has been doing there homework :) lol

Robert B.

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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  1:37:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GMCBlueBird83

quote:
Originally posted by thomas86_a

IC standing for Integrated Conventional, not Integrated Coach like it is today.



And all this time I thought IC stood for something else, how foolish of me



Well technically it stands for Integrated Crap.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3252 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  2:57:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm...I thought it was for Illegitimate Carpenter.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  3:48:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey, how about a little respect for your brothers in Conway?

Tim Boley
AmTran Bus
UAW Local 1762, P.O. Box 396, Conway, AR 72032

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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  8:14:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Not gonna happen anytime soon for my brothers at 1762, there are plenty of suckers like Fairfax County out there buying their products to continue to support their jobs. However I will continue to support my union brothers and sisters at local 5287, they should be proud to be building the future products of the school bus industry.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  8:20:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sheesh, so much for solidarity! LOL

edited to add: Tim tells me that that those Carolina boys talk funny!

Edited by - IC on 10/21/2006 8:25:26 PM
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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  9:04:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

international ic buses and international amtran buses are the same interersting.

International is the chassis. IC is the body. Amtran used to be Ward, IC used to be Amtran.

International makes their own engines, they aren't allowed to use caterpillars or other engines so they use T444E, 3800, DT446. The 3800 engine was discontinued.

It is like this:

Ward=Amtran=IC (somehow it's still International but the IC is still there)

For the Thomas buses

(Thomas flat nosed buses are somehow related to Daimler Chrysler company / Freightliner) but Freightliner doesn't make the flat nosed ones.

They just make the conventional (the FS-655 buses, And the C2, and the Vision buses)

Thomas Built Buses makes their own flat nosed buses but uses the Freightliners work station to make them. Thomas makes the Front engines and the rear engines. That's why on the Thomas Front Engines and Rear Engines you never see Freightliner, you only see the label Thomas Built.

Then the Bluebirds are in the middle. They get to chose from Freightliner or International. Thomas and IC don't get a choice.
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  9:16:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4

quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

international ic buses and international amtran buses are the same interersting.

International is the chassis. IC is the body. Amtran used to be Ward, IC used to be Amtran.

International makes their own engines, they aren't allowed to use caterpillars or other engines so they use T444E, 3800, DT446. The 3800 engine was discontinued.

It is like this:

Ward=Amtran=IC (somehow it's still International but the IC is still there)

For the Thomas buses

(Thomas flat nosed buses are somehow related to Daimler Chrysler company / Freightliner) but Freightliner doesn't make the flat nosed ones.

They just make the conventional (the FS-655 buses, And the C2, and the Vision buses)

Thomas Built Buses makes their own flat nosed buses but uses the Freightliners work station to make them. Thomas makes the Front engines and the rear engines. That's why on the Thomas Front Engines and Rear Engines you never see Freightliner, you only see the label Thomas Built.

Then the Bluebirds are in the middle. They get to chose from Freightliner or International. Thomas and IC don't get a choice.




What in the world....... ?????
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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  9:25:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4

quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

international ic buses and international amtran buses are the same interersting.

International is the chassis. IC is the body. Amtran used to be Ward, IC used to be Amtran.

International makes their own engines, they aren't allowed to use caterpillars or other engines so they use T444E, 3800, DT446. The 3800 engine was discontinued.

It is like this:

Ward=Amtran=IC (somehow it's still International but the IC is still there)

For the Thomas buses

(Thomas flat nosed buses are somehow related to Daimler Chrysler company / Freightliner) but Freightliner doesn't make the flat nosed ones.

They just make the conventional (the FS-655 buses, And the C2, and the Vision buses)

Thomas Built Buses makes their own flat nosed buses but uses the Freightliners work station to make them. Thomas makes the Front engines and the rear engines. That's why on the Thomas Front Engines and Rear Engines you never see Freightliner, you only see the label Thomas Built.

Then the Bluebirds are in the middle. They get to chose from Freightliner or International. Thomas and IC don't get a choice.




What in the world....... ?????


Yikes, maybe i should have kept it short.
AmTran was IC
Thomas Built is Thomas
BlueBird is BlueBird

International and F.L. are two competitors, they make trucks and buses.

Some engines are Cats, and Mercedes.

Okay that should save me.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  10:07:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4

quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4

quote:
Originally posted by adrian1

international ic buses and international amtran buses are the same interersting.

International is the chassis. IC is the body. Amtran used to be Ward, IC used to be Amtran.

International makes their own engines, they aren't allowed to use caterpillars or other engines so they use T444E, 3800, DT446. The 3800 engine was discontinued.

It is like this:

Ward=Amtran=IC (somehow it's still International but the IC is still there)

For the Thomas buses

(Thomas flat nosed buses are somehow related to Daimler Chrysler company / Freightliner) but Freightliner doesn't make the flat nosed ones.

They just make the conventional (the FS-655 buses, And the C2, and the Vision buses)

Thomas Built Buses makes their own flat nosed buses but uses the Freightliners work station to make them. Thomas makes the Front engines and the rear engines. That's why on the Thomas Front Engines and Rear Engines you never see Freightliner, you only see the label Thomas Built.

Then the Bluebirds are in the middle. They get to chose from Freightliner or International. Thomas and IC don't get a choice.




What in the world....... ?????


Yikes, maybe i should have kept it short.
AmTran was IC
Thomas Built is Thomas
BlueBird is BlueBird

International and F.L. are two competitors, they make trucks and buses.

Some engines are Cats, and Mercedes.

Okay that should save me.



Sometimes I think you're just f***** with us'
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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  05:37:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC


Sometimes I think you're just f***** with us'



When I am driving the school bus
one of the first rules that I make a point of
(especially to the younger kids)
is
<respect>.

So i messed up a little bit, no need to use vulgarity. We wouldn't tolerate from those who we transport, let's not make it acceptable on the forums.

-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry that I posted what I thought to be correct information about bus makers and so forth.







Edited by - 80-RE4 on 10/22/2006 05:38:15 AM
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  06:58:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4

International is the chassis. IC is the body. Amtran used to be Ward, IC used to be Amtran.



Correct. IC Corp. is a subsidiary of International. Originally International just made chassis, but they bought out AmTran so that the body and chassis would be built by one company, and therefore, Integrated.

quote:

International makes their own engines, they aren't allowed to use caterpillars or other engines so they use T444E, 3800, DT446. The 3800 engine was discontinued.


It's not that they're not allowed to use anyone else's engines, it's a question of competing with themselves. They make their own engines, so why let their customers buy from someone else?

Also, the 3800 was a chassis model, not an engine. In the 90s, the conventional chassis were either 3700 or 3800, the Vista was 3600, the medium-duty cutaway cab was the 3400, and the flat-nose chassis were either 3000 or 3900. International's engines include the T444E, DT466, DT/DTA360, DT408, the newer DT530 and VT365, and the older 7.3, 6.9, 9.0. (I'm sure I missed a couple others)

quote:

For the Thomas buses

(Thomas flat nosed buses are somehow related to Daimler Chrysler company / Freightliner) but Freightliner doesn't make the flat nosed ones.

They just make the conventional (the FS-655 buses, And the C2, and the Vision buses)

Thomas Built Buses makes their own flat nosed buses but uses the Freightliners work station to make them. Thomas makes the Front engines and the rear engines. That's why on the Thomas Front Engines and Rear Engines you never see Freightliner, you only see the label Thomas Built.


Thomas is a subsidiary of Freightliner (the company was bought out). You're right about how Freightliner designed the conventionals, but only the FS-65 and the C2, the Vision is Blue Bird. Thomas uses some Freightliner parts for the flat noses, but they're still designed and built by Thomas.

quote:

Then the Bluebirds are in the middle. They get to chose from Freightliner or International. Thomas and IC don't get a choice.



Not quite. It's true that Blue Bird will still build on any chassis, but their choices are very limited. Freightliner no longer sells chassis to any competitor of Thomas (although they did when they first introduced the FS-65). International will still sell chassis, but they shoot the price way up because now that they make bodies, they're a supplier to their competitors.

If you buy a Blue Bird conventional and don't have deep pockets, you're buying a Vision. The Vision chassis was designed by Blue Bird, just like their All American flat noses (and the discontinued TC/2000). It's available with a Cummins or CAT engine, and International and Freightliner had nothing to do with the design.

Edited by - bus724 on 10/22/2006 07:03:12 AM
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  08:17:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Don't waste your time explaining it to him he's never going to get it.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  08:20:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks for the info bus724, and also, i did know (But in error I slipped up) the the vision was a product of bluebird, i made a mistake when typing it, after reading your statement- it clicked (Bluebird Vision) Duh!!

Thomas= ER, HDX, and the wonderful EF (the bus I drive) (and the conventionals)

I love Thomas Built Buses

Then IC= The RE buses (I used to drive the AmTran RE buses) and sometimes IC-FE buses

I did drive for Bluebirds= All American RE, and a conventional, as well as a front engine.

A lot of drivers LOVE the Bluebird Front Engine buses.

Edited by - 80-RE4 on 10/22/2006 08:21:50 AM
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mtirv
Advanced Member

USA
407 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  10:59:40 AM  Show Profile  Click to see mtirv's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
I used to ride a bluebird front engine in K-4. It was much better than the HDX I ride now that breaks all the time.

The Thomas C2 and IC-300 are the best though.
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Gini
Top Member

USA
1243 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  12:59:38 PM  Show Profile  Send Gini an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Bret- please stop being so rude to 80AmtranRE4, @ least he's interested, & trying to learn all about buses. if he doesn't get it the 1st time, how about trying to help him instead. :^)

IC- i know you must have the vocabulary to skip vulgar language, you have too much education not to. how about using some interesting big words instead? i wouldn't mind adding to my own vocabulary! :^)

1Peter 1:3
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  3:39:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gini

Bret- please stop being so rude to 80AmtranRE4, @ least he's interested, & trying to learn all about buses. if he doesn't get it the 1st time, how about trying to help him instead. :^)

IC- i know you must have the vocabulary to skip vulgar language, you have too much education not to. how about using some interesting big words instead? i wouldn't mind adding to my own vocabulary! :^)



He's been on these forums for at least four years now. We have gone through this with him NUMEROUS times, it's not like this was his "first try". Many forum members have explained the Type C and D chassis differences to him, who builds on what chassis, who uses what engines and he keeps repeating the same false information over and over. The "3800" engine is a classic example!

And not that I enjoy defending IC however a few vulgar words aren't going to hurt anyone. I have a masters degree in speech/communications and I use the foul language.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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Gini
Top Member

USA
1243 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  4:42:48 PM  Show Profile  Send Gini an AOL message  Reply with Quote
some of the people i know who have degrees in communications are the worst @ communicating. are you saying, that even w/ a masters in speech/communications you don't have the intelligence to come up w/ a few interesting big words on occasion? vulgarities might not hurt anyone, but they sure are boring to hear/see all the time!

80AmtranRE4- how about copying the info in this thread into a "bus info" folder? that way, when you have a question, you can refer to the info folder. as more info comes up, copy & add.

1Peter 1:3
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  5:30:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gini



80AmtranRE4- how about copying the info in this thread into a "bus info" folder? that way, when you have a question, you can refer to the info folder. as more info comes up, copy & add.



Been there done that

Robert B.

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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  6:50:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gini

some of the people i know who have degrees in communications are the worst @ communicating. are you saying, that even w/ a masters in speech/communications you don't have the intelligence to come up w/ a few interesting big words on occasion? vulgarities might not hurt anyone, but they sure are boring to hear/see all the time!

80AmtranRE4- how about copying the info in this thread into a "bus info" folder? that way, when you have a question, you can refer to the info folder. as more info comes up, copy & add.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thanks gini...good idea, I never thought of that.
Sorry everyone for the mix-up
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  10:13:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Remember when I told you that almost a year ago LOL
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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  09:12:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

Remember when I told you that almost a year ago LOL

im getting old and my memory isn't what it used to be

I do know more than I used to however thanks to a lot of you...

I know a secret about Thomas Built Buses that I bet none of you know (The Front Engines)

About the swearing, I was only giving IC a hard time

I bet you all want to know what I know? There is a way to shut off the power for the Thomas Buses, for the chasis and the body...but that's all I can tell you!

Edited by - 80-RE4 on 10/23/2006 09:15:39 AM
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CPCSC_TD
Top Member

USA
657 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  11:54:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know a secret about Thomas Built Buses that I bet none of you know (The Front Engines)
For some reason I don't believe you know a secret that someone on here doesn't already know. Just a weird guess.Everyoen is pretty knowledgable.

Does it have something to do with a pen holder that shocks you- Just kidding!
Something to make you smile though.
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80-RE4
Top Member

USA
5700 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  7:22:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CPCSC_TD

I know a secret about Thomas Built Buses that I bet none of you know (The Front Engines)
For some reason I don't believe you know a secret that someone on here doesn't already know. Just a weird guess.Everyoen is pretty knowledgable.

Does it have something to do with a pen holder that shocks you- Just kidding!
Something to make you smile though.


lol so you still remember that one
I will reveal what I know...If you want to keep your air door shut so no one can get into the bus, there is a fuse in the fuse box that you can pull out and it will close the door. I'm not sure what fuse it is though, I forgot which one, another driver showed me.

It's pretty neat. When you pull the fuse out, the door slams shut, and it can't be opened. There's also a way to shut off the power for the body of the bus and the chasis.
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  8:30:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4


I know a secret about Thomas Built Buses that I bet none of you know (The Front Engines)

I bet you all want to know what I know? There is a way to shut off the power for the Thomas Buses, for the chasis and the body...but that's all I can tell you!


Ya I know a way to cut off power to.....turn the key off
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dem84skeeprollinup
Top Member

USA
888 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2006 :  07:31:48 AM  Show Profile  Click to see dem84skeeprollinup's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

quote:
Originally posted by 80AmtranRE4


I know a secret about Thomas Built Buses that I bet none of you know (The Front Engines)

I bet you all want to know what I know? There is a way to shut off the power for the Thomas Buses, for the chasis and the body...but that's all I can tell you!


Ya I know a way to cut off power to.....turn the key off



WOW! I never knew that! not

But anyway, the pre 1997 buses you can drive around with no electronic power and any electronic assistnce if you leave the choke all the way out and start up the bus, then remove the key. You can drive it that way, but its very unsafe.

Do the world a favor and bring back GMC and Ford conventional chassis......

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Lords47
Top Member

USA
714 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2006 :  08:24:37 AM  Show Profile  Send Lords47 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Um, if you pull the fuse out to slam the door shut... how do you let yourself out?????? Jump out the emergency exit? Same question applies as to how you get back in the bus too. Kind of seems a bit silly to me.

- Ryan

Edited by - Lords47 on 10/24/2006 08:25:06 AM
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Rich
Top Member

United States
5768 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2006 :  08:42:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lords47

Um, if you pull the fuse out to slam the door shut... how do you let yourself out?????? Jump out the emergency exit? Same question applies as to how you get back in the bus too. Kind of seems a bit silly to me.



I assume he means that he gets out of the bus, then opens the fuse panel on the outside, and removes the fuse. I'd imagine that you cannot release the air in order for that to work, you'd probably leave the door in the open position (which can drain the battery if not disconnected from the fuse box), and then pull the fuse for the door switch, which I'd guess makes the door think the switch was moved to "close".



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