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benzguy1986
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  08:46:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit benzguy1986's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I started thinking about this thread again and there are several things I forgot to mention -
1. Ky went to an eight light warning system in 1973 with Wayne buses being the first with the eight ways
2. Ky used the lighted "SCHOOL BUS" signs on front and rear also starting in 1973 and ending in 1987- although I have seen some 1988 Bluebirds with lighted signs.
3. My home county of Bourbon (I am from Paris,Ky) had several small buses that may have been unique or not - I am not sure -
1979 Carpenter handybus with International - 6 windows each side
1980 Carpenter handybus with Ford - also 6 windows each side. This bus had "Budd" type wheels instead of the spoke type wheels.
1981 Ward type A bus with Chevrolet chassis
I drove for Rowan Co. for several years in the mid to late '80s and we had a type B bus that was either a Ward or Superior - '77 or '78 model - I can't remember which. I never drove it or I would remember.
* Another thing I would like to clarify - some school systems had a preference for a certain chassis - either Ford B-series or International Loadstars and later S-series. I don't know if this was based on price, loyalty, or fleet commonality but I imagine this was the case as districts with Fords would continue to buy that chassis, etc. This was throughout the '70s to some extent but really common into the '80s and prevelant in the '90s and 2000s.

I am pretty sure that push out windows were retrofit to all buses after the Carrollton disaster and a side emergency door was added to specs starting in 1990. The 1993 Ward conventional buses I have seen have a seat with a flip up bottom in front of the side emergency door - all others have NO seats in front of the emergency doors.

I am really taxing my memory on this and will update if I think of anything else.
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  09:24:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by benzguy1986

I started thinking about this thread again and there are several things I forgot to mention -
1. Ky went to an eight light warning system in 1973 with Wayne buses being the first with the eight ways
2. Ky used the lighted "SCHOOL BUS" signs on front and rear also starting in 1973 and ending in 1987- although I have seen some 1988 Bluebirds with lighted signs.
3. My home county of Bourbon (I am from Paris,Ky) had several small buses that may have been unique or not - I am not sure -
1979 Carpenter handybus with International - 6 windows each side
1980 Carpenter handybus with Ford - also 6 windows each side. This bus had "Budd" type wheels instead of the spoke type wheels.
1981 Ward type A bus with Chevrolet chassis
I drove for Rowan Co. for several years in the mid to late '80s and we had a type B bus that was either a Ward or Superior - '77 or '78 model - I can't remember which. I never drove it or I would remember.
* Another thing I would like to clarify - some school systems had a preference for a certain chassis - either Ford B-series or International Loadstars and later S-series. I don't know if this was based on price, loyalty, or fleet commonality but I imagine this was the case as districts with Fords would continue to buy that chassis, etc. This was throughout the '70s to some extent but really common into the '80s and prevelant in the '90s and 2000s.

I am pretty sure that push out windows were retrofit to all buses after the Carrollton disaster and a side emergency door was added to specs starting in 1990. The 1993 Ward conventional buses I have seen have a seat with a flip up bottom in front of the side emergency door - all others have NO seats in front of the emergency doors.

I am really taxing my memory on this and will update if I think of anything else.




Very correct! If I am right, any model in the bid could have been ordered at a 36 passenger capacity (6 row), as my school district (Jefferson) has operated '89 Wards, '91 Birds, '94 Carps, '96 Birds, '01 FS65 Birds with that configuration. I've also seen it still ordered on IC's. I haven't heard that about the later model Blue Birds with lit destination signs.

That is also interesting about the pushouts, I always thought those were ordered with the bus. (Then again, the oldest bus I've been on from here is an '88 Ford Wayne).

Here are some photos you might find interesting of older KY buses, these are the oldest that I have found in a collection online:
http://www.perry.k12.ky.us/Central%20Office/Transportation/Forms/Old%20School%20Busses%201.htm

Also, you can check my website for more photos of (modern) KY bus photos:
http://busweb.22web.net/Pages/kycollect.htm

-Jake
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benzguy1986
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  10:47:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit benzguy1986's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jake, thanks for a walk down memory lane!! I remember the 70 Ford/Wards well as I rode to kindergarten on one exactly like the first one. I always liked the '74 Carpenter/Fords and used to drive one for Rowan County as well as a '73 Wayne/Ford and a '77 Superior/Ford. My last bus there was an '80 Ward/Ford that was purchased used from Franklin Co. along with another sister bus. All of our buses at the time (except for two that had been purchased new in 1986/87) had over 100,000 miles on them and the newest bus before these were 80 Carpenter/Fords and an 82 Bluebird/Ford. I thought I was in heaven with an automatic transmission!
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kentuckynascar1
Advanced Member

USA
467 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  1:33:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by benzguy1986

I live in Ashland, Ky and have been a teacher and bus driver since 1986. I will try and fill in bids for Ky school buses since 1966. Around 1980 on is where it gets dicey as most districts had a choice of two body manufacturers and at least two chassis manufacturers.

1966 - wayne/international
1967 - wayne/international
1968 - carpenter/international
1969 - wayne/ford
1970 - ward/ford
1971 - carpenter/international
1972 - carpenter/international - '71 and '72 differ in shape of warning light reflectors, seats were brown but had metal backs on '71s and '71s had chrome poles behind the driver and connected to the modesty panel
1973 - wayne/ford or international
1974 - carpenter/ford or international - mostly based on body size
1975 - ward/ford on 66 pass. and international on smaller bodies
1976 - wayne/internationl
1977 - superior/ford - this was the year and model of the former meade county bus that was involved in the carrollton bus crash
to my knowledge this is the only time that superior buses were ordered for kentucky EXCEPT for van conversions from the 1980s
1978 - ward/ford for 66 passenger - international for smaller and handicapped buses - i am almost sure that some schools ordered the type "b" buses for smaller routes.
1979 - wayne/chevrolet - to my knowledge (other than the '50s and early '60s) this is the only time chevrolet chassis were used in kentucky. many of these buses were delivered to sam cummins chevrolet in paris,ky for pick up to individual districts.
1980 - this is where it gets dicey carpenter or ward/ford
1981 - wayne/international
1982 - bluebird/ford
1983 - bluebird/ford for gasoline, international for diesel
1984 - wayne/ford (possibly international)
1985 - wayne/ford(gasoline)or international(diesel)
1986 - carpenter/ford(gasoline)or international(diesel)
1987 - wayne/international diesel or ford gas
1988 - bluebird/international or ward/international depending on body size
1989 - wayne/international
1990 - ward senators - this is the first time kentucky used "d" type buses
1991 - wayne/international
1992 - ward/international
1993 - amtran/international - however, many smaller buses still said "ward"
1994 ward/international
1995 - carpenter/international or ford - pretty sure all of these were from the mitchell,indiana plant
1996 - amtran/international or ford
1997 - same
1998 - bluebird/international
from here on it is anybodies guess. freightliner/thomas and thomas type "D" buses were ordered as well as amtran/IC corp buses with internationals. however, there are some school districts that ordered freightliner/crown conventionals.



But in the district I grew up in, 86 was a Wayne year, 87 was a Carpenter year, and 88 was another Wayne year. Also, 91 was a Blue Bird International year, as we had both Ward Senators and BB Intls in the fleet. These buses were put in service the beginning of those school years.
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2011 :  10:53:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jake

THANK YOU so much for the information! That is an awesome knowledge of the states history, and really I haven't heard much about Kentucky buses from before 1985. They definitely had some interesting options!

I did find something quite interesting looking at the state inventory, Woodford County Schools operates a 1996 Thomas Transit (not sure RE or FE) at a 75 passenger capacity. To my knowledge, Thomas wasn't offered in 1996 (or bidded on for the most part). The oldest bus that I have seen in operation from the bid is a 1980 Ford Carpenter which has been converted into a band bus (Erangler).

Also, does anyone know of any D3 RE's operating in Kentucky? I know they were on the bid this year, however they didn't approved the D3 for the BB FE bid.





According with the bing map birds eye view in Versailles, KY It looks like a 96 Thomas ER 75 Pass with yellow Rooftop I can tell it by the back of it
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2011 :  11:02:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just looked and its very hard to make it out, but you are correct! I really wish there was better pictures of it. Also, I wonder whats up with them having those old Fords in the corner of the lot? They are obviously retired and not on the state inventory but they are present in both Google Maps Roadview and on Bing's birds eye. They don't appear to be parted out, either.
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benzguy1986
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19 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2011 :  07:42:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit benzguy1986's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As I said, in the 80s things got dicey as far as chassis and body suppliers. I have noticed that a lot of choices depended upon location throughout the state. Western Ky. had a lot of strange choices that we did not in the central and eastern part of the state.
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2011 :  09:51:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by benzguy1986

As I said, in the 80s things got dicey as far as chassis and body suppliers. I have noticed that a lot of choices depended upon location throughout the state. Western Ky. had a lot of strange choices that we did not in the central and eastern part of the state.



Yeah I hear you. I think another part is that it is all still offered but districts down south tend to purchase differently then those up north. I have hardly ever seen any Thomases up here until 2 years ago when we purchased '07 FS65 Thomases after being pure IC for 2 years straight. There are also very few type D buses up here, the Senators were our only transits.. and as I understand, they were a lot of districts only transits.
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benzguy1986
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19 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  08:01:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit benzguy1986's Homepage  Reply with Quote
They were our districts only transits as well. However, Boyd Co. has purchased nothing but AmTran/IC type D transits for their full size buses with a spatering of Thomas type D transits. Their special needs buses are a mixture of Type C buses from Thomas,IC,and Bluebird.
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  08:30:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by benzguy1986

They were our districts only transits as well. However, Boyd Co. has purchased nothing but AmTran/IC type D transits for their full size buses with a spatering of Thomas type D transits. Their special needs buses are a mixture of Type C buses from Thomas,IC,and Bluebird.



That's cool. There's another member from Boyd County here (2004ICFE) and i've seen a few pictures of their fleet. I also think they've repainted white roofs on a lot of their older equipment. Doesn't hurt to keep your buses nice looking!
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benzguy1986
Active Member

19 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  09:37:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit benzguy1986's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes. Back in the mid-90s Boyd County got permission from the state dept. to paint the roof white on one of their special needs buses and did a study to see if it made it cooler. It did and, as a result, Kentucky started ordering buses with a white roof. The minimum security prison here painted the roofs all of the other buses in their fleet. This is what I was told - not sure if the knowledge is totally correct - someone please correct if I am not.
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Thomasbus24
Administrator

USA
3345 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  4:12:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My aunt works at the prison, I'll have to ask her about that next time I see her!
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2011 :  5:32:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Our county repainted a Wayne and a Senator to have white roofs, both of those buses are now retired however. We haven't painted white roofs on any other buses.
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 03/10/2011 :  10:23:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
State inventory updated for 2011. The 1980 Ford Carpenter is no longer in service, I believe the oldest unit now is a '85 Ford Wayne (forget where, but there are still half a dozen districts operating 85/86 Waynes). Also appears that Carpenters have really disappeared off the rosters, however not surprised. Also I believe I spotted a possible '11 D3 RE in one of the fleets, but don't quote me there because the forms are very vague concerning actual bus models. Not many Birds for 2010/11, though.


Since 2008
SBW Homepage - Bus Industry Forums
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Thomas Ford 85-16
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USA
4169 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2011 :  07:17:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
How come KY restricts purchases to certain manufacturers from year to year? Is it for pricing power, or are the excluded manufacturers not meeting specs? It's very curious to me that the bus purchasing is not a local decision.

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 03/11/2011 :  08:36:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas Ford 85-16

How come KY restricts purchases to certain manufacturers from year to year? Is it for pricing power, or are the excluded manufacturers not meeting specs? It's very curious to me that the bus purchasing is not a local decision.



To my understanding, both price and specs are factors on the bid. In Kentucky, for almost any equipment (computers, desks, etc) are bidded on. I'm not sure how or why its like that. Local districts are funded the money to purchase buses and its their decision what to get, but it has to be a bidded option. I also know districts are some how reimbursed for buying new buses by the state bid and I believe that has something to do with it as well.

Contractors (for the few that exist) normally stick by the bid as well, however any used bus bought must have KY specifications, which virtually limits your options to only buses that have been operated in state. Some Indiana buses make it over (95 models due to the side door req.). It seems to me like its complicated but I've seen a few exceptions made over the years.

Edited by - Jake on 03/11/2011 08:36:45 AM
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2011 :  9:38:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jake

State inventory updated for 2011. The 1980 Ford Carpenter is no longer in service, I believe the oldest unit now is a '85 Ford Wayne (forget where, but there are still half a dozen districts operating 85/86 Waynes). Also appears that Carpenters have really disappeared off the rosters, however not surprised. Also I believe I spotted a possible '11 D3 RE in one of the fleets, but don't quote me there because the forms are very vague concerning actual bus models. Not many Birds for 2010/11, though.



Clay County Has a 84 Wayne International 65 Passenger & Whitley County has couple of 84 Wayne Chevy Type A Buses
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2011 :  05:05:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 2004icfe

quote:
Originally posted by Jake

State inventory updated for 2011. The 1980 Ford Carpenter is no longer in service, I believe the oldest unit now is a '85 Ford Wayne (forget where, but there are still half a dozen districts operating 85/86 Waynes). Also appears that Carpenters have really disappeared off the rosters, however not surprised. Also I believe I spotted a possible '11 D3 RE in one of the fleets, but don't quote me there because the forms are very vague concerning actual bus models. Not many Birds for 2010/11, though.



Clay County Has a 84 Wayne International 65 Passenger & Whitley County has couple of 84 Wayne Chevy Type A Buses



Interesting. I also noticed most '87 Carp IHCs are gone now too. There were still about a dozen floating around last time, but so far I've only seen 2 listed.
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2011 :  06:14:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New PA Forums For 2012 School Bus Bid

http://www.education.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/3CE15445-0AE4-4B0A-AAB4-9F63E5701687/0/PA1_2012.pdf

http://www.education.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/3B560F6C-C734-4FCF-B488-A27C34BAA090/0/PA2_2012.pdf
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2011 :  08:49:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you!!! I've been waiting to see this updated.

To note: Looks like KY is still requiring the A3FE body plan. D3RE was removed from the state bid, Blue Bird no longer has a rear-engine bus available in KY.

Also, Blue Bird looks to have the lowest price (again) out of all the manufacturers. And a new IC-RE priced at almost $100k? Goodness.


Since 2008
SBW Homepage - Bus Industry Forums
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Chris
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USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2011 :  9:48:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
When I take trips this is my pick of the fleet.




My Personal Fleet
1985 Ward Ford #1 Lexington Local - 1990 Wayne International NO.2 Walton-Verona - 1992 Ward Senator NO.4 Walton-Verona *SOLD*
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2011 :  03:37:18 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
^Not bad! I didn't like the new grill setup at first, but it's grown on me. It'll be interesting what the new IC-FE looks like (when they come out with it).

Did you all buy a used Ward Senator? I was glancing through the rosters on KDE and it shows a used Ward, #85. Just curious.


Since 2008
SBW Homepage - Bus Industry Forums
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Chris
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USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 08/26/2011 :  05:38:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah we did a couple years back I think it was, we've had it a while now.



My Personal Fleet
1985 Ward Ford #1 Lexington Local - 1990 Wayne International NO.2 Walton-Verona - 1992 Ward Senator NO.4 Walton-Verona *SOLD*
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2011 :  11:20:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
KY State Inventory Updated
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2011 :  11:56:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 2004icfe

KY State Inventory Updated



Awesome!!! Thanks for letting me know .

Looks like they went back to the old inventory format, its a lot sloppier and hardly any of the rosters are organized. No new Blue Birds ordered for 2012, either.

Edited by - Jake on 09/01/2011 12:41:45 PM
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2012 :  7:27:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'LL Show you 4 Pictures

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36763197@N05/7227576348/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36763197@N05/7227579110/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36763197@N05/7227574228/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36763197@N05/7250817274/in/photostream/
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2012 :  08:14:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
State Inventory Updated
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Jake
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USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2012 :  1:00:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Awesome! I've been waiting for it to be updated since December :P
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2012 :  1:09:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to mention that some districts has the new blue bird buses
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2012 :  3:55:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, I did see a stronger BB presence than in previous years. They still don't have a lot of marketshare in Kentucky, but it's growing. No transits though (or at least what I saw), just a bunch of Visions. I also notice more districts siding for C2's rather than IC-CE's. We have 80+ more C2's for 2012 again, and we are normally an IC dominant fleet. Even saw one on the road today.
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Chris
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USA
1013 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  09:11:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chris's Homepage  Send Chris an AOL message  Click to see Chris's MSN Messenger address  Send Chris a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Found a Kentucky bus with WiFi today...first I have seen with it



My Personal Fleet
1985 Ward Ford #1 Lexington Local - 1990 Wayne International NO.2 Walton-Verona - 1992 Ward Senator NO.4 Walton-Verona *SOLD*
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  6:48:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris

Found a Kentucky bus with WiFi today...first I have seen with it



I heard about another district doing that, I couldn't imagine having it on a bus. But maybe I'm just old school.
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2004icfe
Active Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 08/25/2012 :  7:17:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PA Forums Updated for 2013

http://www.education.ky.gov/KDE/Administrative+Resources/Transportation/Buses/Bus+Purchasing+Information.htm
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08 Thomas EF
Top Member

530 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2012 :  4:08:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit 08 Thomas EF's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Wifi on school buses, huh? Sounds like a great idea for someone like me who would use bus time to get some work done on my laptop, but I'm use 95% of people would just screw around with it.
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Jake
Top Member

USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2012 :  7:09:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can't imagine wifi being much beneficial on the bus except for entertainment purposes. Maybe things are different now, but I can count on one hand the amount of students I knew who carried laptops with them to school (and thats as of two years ago). If anything, I bet people would just use it for their cell phones to check facebook.
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