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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2009 :  4:46:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What county would this bus have belonged to?
http://floridachurchbus.com/93m5426tcvista/two.html

VA Beach??
http://floridachurchbus.com/98m5894ihbbdt5ab/two.html

What County?
http://floridachurchbus.com/89m5727tc72/two.html

Prince William Buses??
http://floridachurchbus.com/vatp73108/two.html

What County?
http://floridachurchbus.com/97m5526ihamtran11row/two.html

Anybody that can ID these buses, your help is appreciated!

Edited by - IC RE 1629 on 01/11/2009 4:53:33 PM
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2009 :  6:41:50 PM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
http://floridachurchbus.com/vatp73108/two.html

Yes, those are all former Prince William buses.

Ken

"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2009 :  7:14:36 PM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
http://floridachurchbus.com/93m5426tcvista/two.html

Seriously, I think this is Prince William bus 364, same bus on your website. Compare the buses carefully and you will see that they are almost identical. For example check out the paint that is chipped away on the bottom of the crossover mirror bracket (right above the passenger side headlight) both pics have the same black paint chipped away.

"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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BusFreak
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2009 :  8:46:59 PM  Show Profile  Send BusFreak an AOL message  Reply with Quote
The Blue Bird International is NOT a Virginia Beach bus. Virginia Beach has not gotten stick shifts on regular ed buses since 1980, and stopped getting them on special ed buses in the early 90s. That's a cool bus though. It's rare that you see such a nicely spec'd bus in Virginia with a stick shift. If I had to take a stab, here's how it would go.

1) The Thomas Vista looks like a Prince William County bus
2) The Blue Bird International - Staunton City Public Schools
3) The 89 TC2000FE - Roanoke City
4) The Thomas ER - Price William County
5) The AmTran International - Powhatan County

=
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poor_driver
Senior Member

162 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2009 :  08:13:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good Stab busfreak!

That Bluebird bus (19) is a Rockingham County Public Schools

The Amtran is from Amhearst or Amherst County.

As far as the Bluebird transits, i think i read on the side on the bus that they were from Staunton.....i think don't hold me to that.

And the rest are from Prince William (Thomas er's and Vista).

The older model Thomas internationals are from Faquier, at first it look liked Campbell county's old buses.

I travel U.S 29 alot so i stop by there occasionally just to look around.


p.s. Come to think of it....those Bluebird transits might have been from Roanoke........i think:)

Edited by - poor_driver on 01/12/2009 08:16:00 AM
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BusFreak
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2009 :  10:02:10 AM  Show Profile  Send BusFreak an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I think Staunton's TC2000s had luggage bays in the back, behind the rear wheels. They were "trip buses" for them, in an otherwise all Blue Bird International time. I could be wrong though...I'm having to think WAY back.

=
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722
Senior Member

United States
129 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2009 :  6:58:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Bluebird Transit is old Manassas City school bus 10. When they replace a bus with the same number as the old bus becomes a 100 series number until it is decomissioned.

Arlington County uses a 200 series number in the same manner, if the number is already used in the fleet.
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2009 :  08:48:16 AM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Va.Beach added numbers on the end of the fleet at one time but only once i think and ever since then they all get an A added to the number.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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pbfreak30
Senior Member

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2009 :  6:45:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well it goes to show Virginians dont handle the cold very well, the low is 10 tonight, and most all of the counties here in central Va have closed for tomorrow, and gave us a long 4 day weekend

ARROW transportation RP..the best out there!
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2009 :  8:25:04 PM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
wow , now that is something all schools around here are open and running on time so far. i remember back in 1994 or 95 we had 7 degree days and opened schools late and most buses that were broke down had to be towed.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2009 :  10:11:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We're open on time, but I know there are going to be plenty of no-starts.... or ones that are VERY hard to start!

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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pbfreak30
Senior Member

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  06:14:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yea...Bedford, Amherst, Campbell, Lynchburg city, Henry county, Montgomery county, botetourt, Allegheny county, Covington city...all are closed, and theres a bunch of 2hr delays as well

bedford had closed by 1030 yesterday morning...they were the 1st

ARROW transportation RP..the best out there!
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  08:09:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Eh, quit complaining. -2 overnight here (20 below wind chill), we're open and on time. I went in at 4:30 this morning to fire up the Webasto heaters on the CATs. One bus needed a jump (kept cranking till the battery ran down), but otherwise they all eventually started. And we don't have block heaters...
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Thomas Ford 85-16
Top Member

USA
4164 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  09:12:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Thomas Ford 85-16's Homepage  Send Thomas Ford 85-16 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
10? We haven't topped 0F all week and we have windchills of -40F and are open. Actually though, there is a threshold for safety at which we must close, but we must not have made it. Surrounding counties (up here in Michigan) have closed, but not our ISD. Again though, they have closed because of safety...flesh can freeze in minutes in that weather...we must be moderated by the water. I think closing for 10F is just an excuse to save money.

Mike's Bus Yard - http://buses.zwebpages.com - Since 1999
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pbfreak30
Senior Member

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  09:34:46 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yea, it probably was so that they can turn the heat off in the school and not pay the heating bill for this 4 day weekend...idk around here we have actually closed at the threat of snow...but then it didnt snow, so we looked like fools...but thats central VA for ya

ARROW transportation RP..the best out there!
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bus724
Top Member

USA
1609 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  10:35:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit bus724's Homepage  Send bus724 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Well we've done that. If they think the roads are going to be bad, they'll cancel. Our first snow day this year was in anticipation of a mid-day storm, that didn't start until after 2:00 (when buses would have been parked after an early release). But last year we got hammered with a mid-day storm that came earlier than expected and resulted in an early release with buses being out when the roads were at their worst.

Yesterday we took a gamble that paid off. We were expecting 3-5 inches in the morning, which ended up going south of us (we got about 3-5 snowflakes). The call was made at 5:00 to go on a regular schedule, which I'm sure was partly due to the exams at the HS.
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  1:43:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It took me about 25 mins today to start of one of our 95 Thomas's today... but I got it, only issue was it kept turning off but finally it stayed running!

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  8:10:00 PM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
My cranked right up or my sub bus did doesnt do bad. i think we faired very well here in va. beach today nothing to abnormal. i remember one year when all the 1987 GMCs kept having the air systems freeze up even after people start driving them i know on my end of town we had about 4 or 5 that got messed up that way.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  11:08:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes there were a few reports of units that had their brake lines freeze up, and they lost pressure, and had to pull over. One particular case was about 2 hours after the bus was pre-tripped and out on runs, and she had to pull over. Very interesting. It's abut 7 degrees here right now.

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  6:40:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey! I found a photo of Fairfax County bus 1076 (from 1988) which I'm almost 100% sure was an 1987 Ward International. The photo is B&W and a bit fuzzy, so being 100% sure is difficult just going by the photo. In the photo, the bus number (1076) is painted on the passenger side of the front bumper as opposed to driver's side as we see today. It also appears the bus has no crossing gate.

Now here's my question. When did crossing gates become mandatory in Virginia? If my assumptions are correct, I believe that the first Fairfax County buses to come equipped with them were the 1990 Blue Bird's. I also believe that the 87' Wards, and 88-89' Waynes were retrofitted with them as all of them had crossing gates upon their retirement.

Can any of you history buffs help me out?
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  6:51:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1629, not sure how completely accurate this is, but to my knowledge, the buses in the mid-700's, 900s and early 1000's were 1986 Wards, and the late 1000's and 1100's and some other odds were 87 Wards. This would make the bus you are referring to, most likely an 87, so that would probably be correct.

You can also see the correlation between our 86's and our 2007 model IC's. Many of them have the numbering of the 86's, while our 09 IC CE's seem to have the numbering of our 87's. Two particular cases I can think of are 1140 and 1141 which are now 09s.

For 86's that are now 07's I can think of 1000.

This is what I am assuming to be the case, I'm not for sure.


bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.

Edited by - IC-RE on 01/20/2009 6:53:29 PM
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Gini
Top Member

USA
1243 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  6:53:02 PM  Show Profile  Send Gini an AOL message  Reply with Quote
my 86 Ford half lift, which came in spring 87, was retrofitted, but i don't remember just when.

1Peter 1:3
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  01:44:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

Hey! I found a photo of Fairfax County bus 1076 (from 1988) which I'm almost 100% sure was an 1987 Ward International. The photo is B&W and a bit fuzzy, so being 100% sure is difficult just going by the photo. In the photo, the bus number (1076) is painted on the passenger side of the front bumper as opposed to driver's side as we see today. It also appears the bus has no crossing gate.

Now here's my question. When did crossing gates become mandatory in Virginia? If my assumptions are correct, I believe that the first Fairfax County buses to come equipped with them were the 1990 Blue Bird's. I also believe that the 87' Wards, and 88-89' Waynes were retrofitted with them as all of them had crossing gates upon their retirement.

Can any of you history buffs help me out?



Let's see if BusFreak or someone with more historical background can help me out with my crossing gate question.
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  06:42:51 AM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I know that in Prince William County, the first buses that came equipped with crossing gates were the 1988 Bluebird Chevy Diesels. These buses were the first buses ever purchased with automatic transmissions and diesel engines. They were also the first buses with the 8-lamp warning system. We had 1987 GMC Bluebirds (last year of the 4-lamp systems)that did not come with the crossing gates. They were later retrofitted in 1988.

Hope this helps

"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  06:53:14 AM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Also, just to add to my last comment....I remember when the bus numbers were painted on the base of the crossing arms. The 1988 buses came this way. The buses that were retrofitted also had the numbers on the crossing gates. Then, in 1990 our next batch of new buses had the bus numbers on the drivers side of the bumper (came this way from the dealer). We then converted all the numbers from the crossing gate side to the drivers side bumper.

Here is an example pic of of the original bus number location taken from bsaund09's site: Prince William buses were the same way.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7372257@N05/3163592767/


"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  09:03:29 AM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
in Va.Beach in 1987 half of the GMCs bought came in with crossing arms already installed the ones with out the crossing arm had overhead compartments in them. the '88 models all came with installed crossing arms and during that summer all buses were retrofitted with the crossing arms. Norfolk installed crossing arms on school buses that didnt have stop signs weird but it must have been a rather serious mandate from the state.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  10:12:24 AM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
bsaund09 - do you remember the old buses with the poles in the front and the "tick-tock" of the warning lights? I remember many of the old internationals we had did not have power steering. Boy, those were the days. No crossing gates or stop arms back then either and I think there was only one crossing mirror.

"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  2:22:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BusFreak or Disneynuts, are you out there? Can you answer my question?
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BusFreak
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  3:02:55 PM  Show Profile  Send BusFreak an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure that by the fall of 89, all buses had to come with them, or be retrofitted. As far as the number being on the service door side of the bumber, I don't think there was ever a requirement to move the existing number, and actually, I think that the requirement just says that it should be visible even when the crossing gate is in the open position. There were plenty of buses that had the number in the middle of the front bumper. I think that rule has recently been changed to the driver's side though, as we all saw the freak C2s from Sonny Merryman in 2006-07 which had the number on the service door side. They are now coming on the driver's side.

=
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  3:56:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You guys just made me pull out my '60s Annandale HS yearbooks.

In the '68 yearbook there is a frontal photo of a row of buses at dismissal time. The bus number is on the service door side right next to the license plate. It appears to have been spray painted on with a stencil...can't tell what color (b&w photo. Most of the buses are mid 60's GMCs with Superior bodies (I think).

Incidentally, one of the buses has it's hood up and the driver is messing around in there....Heck, they couldn't get 'em started 40 years ago either! LOL
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  6:25:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So our 1989 Wayne Ford's may have been the first FCPS buses with factory installed crossing gates? or was it the 1990 Blue Bird's?

The October 2007 VAPT regulations state the bus number is to be on the driver's side of the front bumper. I found that interesting that several Loudoun and Arlington C2's have it on the service door side.

I remember looking at either a 88' Wayne GMC or 89' Wayne Ford at Newington a few years back and noticing the number painted on the service door side of the bumper. The number was blacked out, but you could see if you closely looked behind the motor for the crossing gate. The "visible" number was on the driver's side as we currently see today.
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pbfreak30
Senior Member

USA
171 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2009 :  07:42:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well we are all out here again today..some icing...tomorrow morning will be bad, so im expecting at least a 2hr delay tomorrow as well

ARROW transportation RP..the best out there!
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vabuslover
Advanced Member

United States
246 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2009 :  9:37:56 PM  Show Profile  Click to see vabuslover's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
In Newport News, all buses as far back as I can remember had crossing gates. Whether they were original I do not know, but I would think that the ones that weren't original were retrofitted. All of our buses always had the number on the driver side, and never on the crossing gate.

When did they go from that wire crossing gate to the yellow one? I know that our AmTrans were most likely the first to get them, as all of the 'Birds we were getting until 95 had that wire gate, and most still do. Some of them were retrofitted with the yellow one, most likely due to the wire one getting heavily damaged.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2009 :  07:00:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I believe the first of the FCPS buses to get the yellow gate were the 1996 AmTran's we got. The "newest" buses I've seen with wire gates are the 95' Thomas ER's. Almost all have since been replaced with the yellow one.
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BusFreak
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2009 :  11:02:28 PM  Show Profile  Send BusFreak an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I know that Sonny Merryman (Thomas Dealer) made the yellow crossing gates standard in 96. I think that the Blue Bird dealer was the last to fall onto the bandwagon with them though, as the 99 Blue Bird GMCs in Virginia Beach came with wire ones. For a minute though, they upgraded the wire ones. They had yellow ends on them, with a cool rubber thing at the tip so that it did not scratch the paint when it smacked into the bumper. Come to think of it, the 97 (ish) AmTrans that Virginia Beach got for special ed also had the yellow gates, so 1629, I'm thinking your dating is correct! Blue Bird did not offer that as standard until later though.

=
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