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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2006 :  05:49:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
IC, you bring up a good point! If they could create program that would show people the potentially fatal consequences of running a stopped bus, it might help reduce red light runnings.
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2006 :  5:19:04 PM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
good points about running a school bus's warning lights but i have had people drive by while I was unloading and never even hinted they were looking at a school bus. I have noticed with all the bad drivers on the road these days it is a wander we do not have more students getting injuried at school bus stops.The ones that actually pass the bus and then stop really amaze me if we were just a stop light i could see the delay reaction but actually having someone else child as the invisible target scares me. Motorist need to be charged for lack of attention to driving because you have folks that just run it(they usually are looking at what is going on) but the ones just not aware of what we are doing is totally unacceptable.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2006 :  5:53:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know places where Fauquier County parks their buses? I only know of three places:

Warrenton, VA (at a compound)
Warrenton, VA (at a commuter lot on Rt. 29)
Marshall, VA (at a school)
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04ICCE
Senior Member

USA
74 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2006 :  6:37:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit 04ICCE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
marshall at the community center, we were there for a volleyball game and had to move for the buses that park there.
quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

Does anyone know places where Fauquier County parks their buses? I only know of three places:

Warrenton, VA (at a compound)
Warrenton, VA (at a commuter lot on Rt. 29)
Marshall, VA (at a school)


Scott
Wakefield Country Day School
Rappahannock county VA
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2006 :  1:08:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Today Williams Bus 21 was on a Field trip at my work so I got pretty close to it, and noticed it had VERY minimal specs, also on the side, you can tell that it used to say "Ryder Student Transportation Services" but was pealed off. Does anyone know if Williams bought there buses from Ryder? 21 is a Blue Bird International

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  02:02:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ic-re

bus # 20 & 21 were purchased three years ago from First Student, which had bought out Ryder earlier.

if you get the chance to get around many of the large contractors ( laidlaw, first student, durham, etc) you will see that unless the contract calls for special items, a plain bus will do for them. when laidlaw was in fairfax 93-96 their Genesis buses featured only a front heater and defroster as the only options.

gini have a great time in the new years. i remember those vans that was used for special ed in the late 60's, so you have put in your time, enjoy it.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  02:40:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man, it doesn't seem the contractors put much thought into their buses.
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  08:19:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
it's what will get the job done as economical as possible.

Look at the basic Va. specs. Not really too many extras. After all in the suburban area's most of the kids are on the bus less than one hour.
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  08:22:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
how are things at frying pan park?
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2006 :  3:14:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Disneynuts, could you shoot me an e-mail when you get the chance, I forgot your e-mail address and had a question.

Williams Bus Lines has some very NICE buses, but when you compair your all's HDX's and IC RE's to your old Blue Birds and Thomas's, there is a very noticable difference.

Which buses did Williams actually buy to their own specs, and which did they purchase from other contracters like buses 20 and 21?

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  01:46:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is the listing

# 1 - 2 -3 Left over from Loudoun County School Bid

# 4 - in stock on lot

# 5 - Ordered to our specs

# 6 - - 22 Ordered to another contractor Specs, could not afford them we purchased them

# 7 - - In stock

# 8 - - In stock

# 9 - - Our specs

# 10 - - In stock

# 11 - - Purchased from existing school

# 12 - - In stock

# 14 - - In stock

# 15 - - In stock

# 16 - - In Stock

# 18 - - Our specs

# 19 - - Existing school

# 20 - - 21 - - First Student

# 30 - - 31 Our specs

Existing school means that we took over the operation of the transportation dept and purchased their bus. In stock means we needed a bus that day and purchased what was on the lot. First student means we purchased from them due to decreases in their contracts.

Generally if you order a bus to your specs it takes about 6 months to get it built. We ordered # 18 in February and it was delived the last week of September. Even then, Sonny Merryman could not get all the specs right.

When a customer wants to add a route they usually want to add it now due to demand from parents or crowding.

The dealers have a hard time ordering our specs, due to the fact that we require items that they do not normally offer either because we are purchasing a MD spec bus from the VA dealer or the other way around.

Don't know if you know that the bus dealers have an exclusive agreement not to sell across state lines. That is Kingmor can not sell to anyone but Virginia customers, and American Bus in Annapolis cannot sell to anyone in VA.

WBL was the first in the area to have the blue interiors, and dark tinted windows. So although the older buses do not look like they have many options, for their time they were what the dealers called loaded.
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  04:03:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Also, when I say they were stock buses, we then have them add the polished wheels, a/c, strobe light, stop sign and crossing arms.

Consider that in 89 when Thomas first came out the the MVP model WBL had the 58th one built. It was loaded with the highest horse power engine that VA allowed, extras heaters in the rear, stepwell, AM FM cassette PA with 10 speakers, destination signs, roof hatches, all blue interiors.

WBL often bought the show buses that were on display at the VAPT confernce which were "loaded" with just about every option VA allowed.

WBL has pushed VA for many new options.

Currently we are trying to get a heated seat available for the driver. Simple options like this that are available to every other mode of transportation are not permitted for reasons unknown. Many options that are available to the trucking industry are not available to buses.

Currently we are experimenting with engine brakes ( aka Jake Brake ) on the new buses.

I know Thomas has a hard time building buses to Fairfax County specs. For some reason some of the things that Ernie Green had speced Thomas states are not available. One that comes to mind is the two lights for the stepwell. Thomas will not put those in. Instead they offer an addtional light overhead. Fairfax will not accept that.

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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  11:45:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fairfax has earned the nickname "State of Fairfax" by some in the bus industry. Reason for this being that we have many regulations that we've come up with ourselves in addition to VA's regulations. Ernie Greene told me that FCPS's regulations are tighter in some respects.

Also, Brian Waymire is the new guy. Ernie retired September 30, 2005. Oh and Ernie didn't come up with alot of the regs we have. Our TD came up with most of them. Ernie didn't like most of our regulations and tried many times to talk the TD out of it, to no avail.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  3:55:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting stuff, disneynuts, thanks for posting.

PS: And here's to Thomas' continued inabilty to build to Fairfax specs!
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722
Senior Member

United States
129 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  4:46:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Virginia specs committe has to approve everything placed on a school bus. While over the last few years some options have been permitted, rules were laxed, now are back to pilot,approved or they will not be permitted on future buses.

So some items that certain systems were using may not be permitted in 2007. I know that the dual stop signs will be required on 66 to 78 passenger buses and the red traffic warning light system will flash if the enterance door is opened, regardless if the driver activated the amber lights first.

This is all I know at this moment on 2007 specs.
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  5:06:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
thanks for the info 722

your old boss mr. dixon was once a bus driver for franklin motorcoach, and that is where he got his start. he always liked the brown color seats. give me anything but the brown. even green seats are better.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  5:21:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So if you open your entrance door without activating the amber lights, your reds will come on? Will you be able to cancel them with the Master Cancel?

Also, do you think FCPS will have that on the buses we buy for this school year?
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  6:12:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Disneynuts, that explains why no 2 or your buses look alike haha, except your HDX's look a lot like our MVP's except 9, that is a nice one!

This whole reds activating with the doors is SOOO our 87 Wards haha

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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Gini
Top Member

USA
1243 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2006 :  7:38:45 PM  Show Profile  Send Gini an AOL message  Reply with Quote
i agree w/ you, disneynuts, anything but those ugly brown seats! i loved my '98 Genesis, but those seats were UGLY!

1Peter 1:3
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722
Senior Member

United States
129 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  06:17:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't see the seat color choices being limited back to the old days of only Green & Brown (Yuck !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I am sure that tan, blue, and gray are safe.

I very much like the blue, (thank you, WBL for bringing that to VA)

Yes, there will be an cancel switch, but the design I am not sure. I know it will not be like the old 4-light system since the majority of systems are using air doors now.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  09:11:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I like blue & gray seats.

What is VA's logic for this new reg with the red lights?
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2006 :  7:28:34 PM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Seat colors interesting I liked the red seats in the AABluebird they were the best I ever had very nice fabric.They have actually held up very well.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  05:59:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ir re

1, 2 & 3 are identical, even using the same ignition keys.

# 5, 9 & 18 have the same specs, just # 5 is a c2

4, 8 & 10 have the same specs, just # 10 is a CE instead of RE

20 & 21 have the same specs

30 & 31 have the same specs

6 & 22 are the same

like i said before, when a customer wants a bus, they usally want it NOW. Our new bus 18 was ordered on March 19th for delivery on June 1. It was delivered on Sept 21. I could not tell a customer you have to wait 6 months for new service. Would you wait 6 months for a slurpee or a burger? when we have time to wait, and are in a replacement cycle we order to our specs. when not we have to take what we can get to meet the customer needs.


you can't get the same specs from md as you do from va. and depending on your customer needs is what you have to order.

instaed of having tax dollars to spend we have to get money from the parents and schools to pay our way. we get no financial help from anyone but our customers.

and if you ask 722, they will tell you that some counties get away with a lot more than we are allowed to, especially when it comes to md inspectors. you have said you have seen buses with parts from another bus. like blue bird step treads on an amtram. that would not be allowed on any md. bus.

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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  07:14:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
very interesting. Are you HDX's aside from bus 9 former Loudoun buses because they look very similar?

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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722
Senior Member

United States
129 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  3:00:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by disneynuts

ir re

1, 2 & 3 are identical, even using the same ignition keys.

# 5, 9 & 18 have the same specs, just # 5 is a c2

4, 8 & 10 have the same specs, just # 10 is a CE instead of RE

20 & 21 have the same specs

30 & 31 have the same specs

6 & 22 are the same

like i said before, when a customer wants a bus, they usally want it NOW. Our new bus 18 was ordered on March 19th for delivery on June 1. It was delivered on Sept 21. I could not tell a customer you have to wait 6 months for new service. Would you wait 6 months for a slurpee or a burger? when we have time to wait, and are in a replacement cycle we order to our specs. when not we have to take what we can get to meet the customer needs.


you can't get the same specs from md as you do from va. and depending on your customer needs is what you have to order.

instaed of having tax dollars to spend we have to get money from the parents and schools to pay our way. we get no financial help from anyone but our customers.

and if you ask 722, they will tell you that some counties get away with a lot more than we are allowed to, especially when it comes to md inspectors. you have said you have seen buses with parts from another bus. like blue bird step treads on an amtram. that would not be allowed on any md. bus.



Those Maryland Inspectors "ARE THE MAN !" and have no bones at letting you know, if you are gonna run that in Maryland, it's going to meet Maryland specs and you have to have dual(Virginia & Maryland) tags too, even if you are based in Virginia.

These guys take the Maryland spec book to bed at night. They are nice guys, but tough on bus specs.
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  3:56:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are some Maryland specs that are different then VA?
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  4:13:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One real noticible one to me is that they have logos, and black ribbons above the windows. Theu just seem to look so much different

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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vaoverland
Advanced Member

USA
225 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  4:36:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit vaoverland's Homepage  Send vaoverland an AOL message  Send vaoverland a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding restricting dealer sales areas, legally, due to antitrust laws, the factories cannot dictate where you can sell a bus as a dealer; however, through geographic pricing promotions, they effectively can do just that

Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/

Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  6:08:13 PM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
We had a Loundon County C2 here in Va. Beach this weekend. It actually looked really nice I hope ours are just as nice. They actually had two yellow buses here do they still run the white activity buses.They had 676 the C2 and 176 a thomas transit here at the band competition.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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Gini
Top Member

USA
1243 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  6:51:18 PM  Show Profile  Send Gini an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Brian- i've seen the white activity buses, i live in Loudoun Co.

1Peter 1:3
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BusFreak
Top Member

USA
798 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2006 :  11:01:17 PM  Show Profile  Send BusFreak an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Funny you mention that Brian...I was up in Towson MD on Saturday, and I too saw three Loudoun County school buses at a band competition. All different too...One IC CE, One yellow HDX, and one C2. They all are very nice buses with all the Loudoun specs, but I too was shocked that the school (Briar Woods HS) diddn't take the white activity buses. My thought is this. Loudoun is by far the most rapidly growing county in the state, if not the country. Most of their high schools have been built within the past 10 years. They only have a hand full of white Thomas HDX activity buses, and on a Saturday in the fall, EVERY high school band is out competing. Many Fairfax County bands travel in 4 or 5 charter buses or up to 8 school buses. I'm sure those HDXs are a premium on those Saturdays, and only a few programs gain their use. The white ones are spected nicely too, with AC (like all their new buses), 100 gallon fuel tanks, underfloor storage, luggage racks, and activity seating with reclining seats. They are the next best thing to motorcoaches.

Also interesting...my group has found that traveling in Motorcoaches tends to be cheaper than traveling distances in FCPS school buses. You have to pay for the school buses by the hour, while you pay for milage/day with the motorcoaches. I'm supprised that Loudoun County group went with the school buses as far as Virginia Beach.

Brian, you'll get a kick out of this...When I was in high school, we took motorcoaches (Gallop) from Salem High School to Princess Anne High School for a band competition. Most people there thought we were just snobby Salem, but the truth was we had another show that evening in North Carolina.

=
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IC RE 1629
Top Member

United States
5097 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  02:31:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
FCPS makes you pay for the use of it's school buses for trips like that?
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disneynuts
Advanced Member

USA
220 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  06:55:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit disneynuts's Homepage  Reply with Quote
hey 722

they did away with the dual registations when the federal dot started the SSRS ( Single State Registration System). You now register with the state what stares you travel in and the send the bills to you for your road tax decals and fuel taxes.

hey vaoverland

who does the work for the private schools in the richmond area now? is va overland still in business?

some of the different specs are

no locks are allowed on anything.
the red lights will work without any key being on
bus has to be undercoated
different heater hose shutoff's and different locations
logos are allowed buy only after the first row of windows
some of the wiring is different
up unitl 2002 a/c was not allowed at all
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bsaund09
Top Member

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  07:05:27 AM  Show Profile  Send bsaund09 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I remember Salem doing that ;it did get everyones attention . Salem got Grand Champions at the cavilier classic this past saturday they have an awesome show.Robinson Secondary was at ODU for the Granby comp they were in 4 or 5 charters. I asked about the white Loundon buses because they have full time drivers doing that and i like the idea of just being a trip bus would beat doing everyday routes.

keep those buses rolling
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/schoolbushistory
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2006 :  10:54:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IC RE 1629

FCPS makes you pay for the use of it's school buses for trips like that?



OH YES THEY DO HAHA, and they aren't cheap! We tried to take a trip, and if it is not TOTALLY sponsored by the teacher and Director of Student Activities, AND the Principal, they charge a lot more. They do have set fees for the common trips like other high schools, D.C. and so other hot spots

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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