Read about the Great Fleets Across America
Subscribe

School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
 All Forums
 General Interest
 Enter Forum: General Interest
 NEEDED Pictures or brouchures of 53 Superior
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Isellbuses
Top Member

Canada
828 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  07:33:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am looking for pictures of a 1953 International Superior.

SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  08:47:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Isellbuses

I am looking for pictures of a 1953 International Superior.



The 1953 Superior brochure does not have any photos of a Superior International. As many brochures of that era it contains many illustrations of buses often with generic chassis.
I purchased a 1953 International brochure many years ago but I'm not positive it's a '53 brochure. It doesn't have 1953 anywhere in it and I honestly don't know a '52 International from a '53 or '54.
Anyway, here's a pic from that so called '53 brochure but the body is definitely not a '53 Superior, rather it's a 1952 (maybe even a '51). The '53 Superior bodies included ribbed siding and no side fixed rear window. Hope this helps.
Oh, if interested, I do have a black and white pic of a '53 or '54 Superior International that was in an accident. The front end is smashed quite a bit. I can post that here if you're interested.


Ted

Go to Top of Page

Isellbuses
Top Member

Canada
828 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  4:20:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Ted.

Go to Top of Page

informtnBus
Active Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  6:13:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
'63:
I know that you have an extensive collection of literature but one thing that you need to keep in mind is that the brochures only show a few of the available options. Reeded side sheets and even the panelled rear quarter area (vs. the glass shown in the picture) may have been available but not shown in any of the promotional stuff. The Superior body styling changed relatively little between the late 40's and the late 50's. In fact, what was shown in the promo stuff was probably heavily tilted towards what Superior wanted to accentuate in the marketplace with regards to spec writing.

I'll take the reeded side sheets as an example. Body companies use these "reeds" to stiffen side body panels that may be a thinner gauge of steel. By demonstrating smooth sheets (which are usually a thicker gauge) Superior was probably trying to push a specification that gave them a competitive advantage.

Your picture may very well be a '53 superior on a '53 IH chassis.
Go to Top of Page

SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  8:22:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a '53 (or so) Superior from a Superior advertisement. The bus-train accident actually occured in Superior's back yard, Lima, OH.


informtnbus: I have little disagreement with what you say except when you say that the Superior body styling changed very little from the late 40's to the late 50's. In 1951 Superior completely redesigned their body from top to bottom. What does confuse the issue is that Superior's Southern Division (Kosciusko, Mississippi) continued to build the old 40's type body through most of the 50's.

Ted

Go to Top of Page

informtnBus
Active Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2005 :  6:02:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
'63-
The pictures and information that I have do not indicate a re-design in the timeframe that you suggest. Rather the differences between the Kosciusko Pionneers and the Lima-built school buses were actually pretty subtle. The Kosciusko plant was opened so that Superior could build a "no frills" version of their product. However, cosmetically and structurally these buses were very close. For example, the rubrails on the Pioneer were different than those on Lima-built buses. Eventually, Superior determined that the economics of building the different bodies just didn't work and they ended up building pretty much identical units as early as at least 1961.

Superior went from the rounded, "streamlined" look on its buses around 1955. The front cap was the most notable change. The rear cap and rear end assembly change later to the wrap-around quarter glass configuration that was the familiar Superior look through the 60's and into the 70's. The best representation of that change can be found on the School Bus Explorer web site. They have a '53 Superior pusher with the "streamlined" look and a '55 pusher with the new front cap arrangement. Notice the rear ends are the same.

http://busexplorer.com/Sindex.html

I am familiar with that crash photo. The bus in the photo was owned by my school.
Go to Top of Page

SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2005 :  08:04:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a feeling it may be impossible to convince you that the '51 Superior Pioneer was an ALL NEW, "completely new" school bus. Here is a two page ad from early '51.

http://www.msnusers.com/SuperiorGMC1963/1951superiorad.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=139
http://www.msnusers.com/SuperiorGMC1963/1951superiorad.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=140



The most notable changes from the Superior bus of the 40's to this new coach include: increased headroom, larger passenger windows, larger windshield, larger entrance area, new seats, new entrance door, etc, etc, etc. Granted, some of the styling is similar but at the same time, the '51 is an all new bus, top to bottom, inside and out!

Ted


Edited by - SuperiorGMC1963 on 02/25/2005 08:13:26 AM
Go to Top of Page

informtnBus
Active Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2005 :  4:47:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
'63, we're probably not as far apart on this as you may think. I believe that the '51's were different but I think that you have to take into account that what you are looking at is marketing literature. The basics of the Superior bus stayed the same but there were the changes highlighted in the brochure. I just believe that the changes that occurred in the later 50's and early 60's were more significant with regards to outward appearance.

In fact, I have a theory on why those changes highlighted in your literature occurred. Superior did quite a bit of expansion in 1951. The Lima plant added nearly 400,000 sq. ft. of manufacturing space and the Kosciusko, MS plant opened in November of 1951. I'm going to guess that the tooling investment that was required to open a second facility was used primarily to retool the line in Lima. That is why you see such changes as headroom, window size (which really is a fucntion of headroom), windshield (also tied to headroom), larger entrance door (which come to think of it is tied to higher headroom), seats, etc. The old tooling was probably transferred to MS. After all, the concept behind Kosciusko was "no frills" and a low cost product to compete in the southern market.

I'll have to check with my source of Superior info. and report back.
Go to Top of Page

SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2005 :  8:21:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll look forward to hearing from you after you consult your source.

As I was on eBay looking for something else, I see that there's an auction running for a 1954 Superior brochure. This is a brochure for Superior's Southern Division and features the '40's style Superior body.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4151&item=6514231999&rd=1
Go to Top of Page

Isellbuses
Top Member

Canada
828 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2005 :  5:25:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you SuperiorGMC, that is perfect.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
 


School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums © 2013 School Bus Fleet Magazine Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.42 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000