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Bluebird 7
Active Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2005 :  9:29:17 PM  Show Profile  Send Bluebird 7 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
If i did this right, you should be looking at a 1964 IH/Wayne. It was in service in north east Pa. till about 1983. Just thought you all would like to see it.

Rich
Top Member

United States
5768 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2005 :  9:51:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, that bus is absolutely gorgeous. What an excellent shot! Thanks for sharing that with us!



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1983WardFord
Top Member

USA
1377 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  05:56:22 AM  Show Profile  Send 1983WardFord an AOL message  Send 1983WardFord a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, thanks for sharing that photo with us. It's a beautiful bus, definitely. Wish I could have driven one of those.

Due to the current economic condition, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off until further notice.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  06:42:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What they ^ said!

And I thought the 8-lamp system was a relatively modern innovation. Shows what I know!
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BlueBird44
Top Member

USA
1639 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  08:32:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is such a nice looking bus. Thanks for sharing!


IC-The Golden Shield of School Transportation
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Bluebird 7
Active Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  11:26:45 AM  Show Profile  Send Bluebird 7 an AOL message  Reply with Quote
The 8 way light system was installed in early 1971. All school buses in Pa. were required to have the new 8 way system starting in 71, even the old buses. There was an old 58 GMC still being used as a spare in 71, it had the 8 way lights installed to, looked very odd though.
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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  12:17:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
OMG. I want one! Ive never seen a Wayne with that body style. Thanks for sharing that.

Robert B.

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Jake
Top Member

USA
3518 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  12:37:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jake's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Those are great photos! Did they even have 8 way flashers back then?
-Jake
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Isellbuses
Top Member

Canada
828 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  1:35:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is an awesome looking bus. I would have loved to have seen it restored. But did I read that right, in service up to 1983?
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  2:03:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slurrrp, drooool, sloobbber....

Thanks for sharing those photos! That's a great looking old Wayne. You never saw too many of those with that type of windshield and entrance doors. Great bus!

Ted

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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  2:38:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After I posted, it occured to me that the 8-light system might have been a retrofit. But I still didn't realize it even went back to '71, considering VA didn't mandate it until '88. Heck, we STILL have a few 4-lampers running around in 2005!
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78fordwayne
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USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  3:47:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know what year was the last year of that body style

Robert
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Jared
Top Member

USA
1865 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  5:24:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Jared's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

Does anyone know what year was the last year of that body style

Robert



it was either 64 or 65. 1966 was definately the squared off back end. Also, in 62-64 you could get a more squared off front roof cap as an option, which became standard with the more square roof bows in 66.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  8:19:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jared

quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

Does anyone know what year was the last year of that body style

Robert



it was either 64 or 65. 1966 was definately the squared off back end. Also, in 62-64 you could get a more squared off front roof cap as an option, which became standard with the more square roof bows in 66.



I can narrow it down. 1964 was the last year of that body style.

Ted

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78fordwayne
Top Member

USA
2868 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  8:22:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit 78fordwayne's Homepage  Send 78fordwayne an AOL message  Send 78fordwayne a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Then the next body style was from 1965 till 1972 ? Then 1973 to 1995 ? I want to know my Waynes well
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2005 :  8:56:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

Then the next body style was from 1965 till 1972 ? Then 1973 to 1995 ? I want to know my Waynes well



Yes and Yes. You know your Waynes!
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Jared
Top Member

USA
1865 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  04:18:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jared's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuperiorGMC1963

quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

Then the next body style was from 1965 till 1972 ? Then 1973 to 1995 ? I want to know my Waynes well



Yes and Yes. You know your Waynes!



actually, they began using the rear roof cap or something similar on the front in 68 which slightly changed the front end appearance.

1965-1967


1968-1972

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/

Edited by - Jared on 02/22/2005 04:22:24 AM
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  06:09:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The front end roof cap change came in the 1967 model year. Also, the tear drop style windshield (1965-66) continued as an option with the newer roof cap (1967-72) through 1972.
One modification in design of the 1973-95 body style had to do with the rear window. In 1973-74 the rear window was fixed, the same window as in the 1965-72 Wayne's. From 1975 on it was the more familiar regular style split sash window. Below is a 1973 Wayne from the Oct/Nov 1973 SBF.

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Jared
Top Member

USA
1865 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  08:49:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jared's Homepage  Reply with Quote
such a modern looking bus for 1973. I love the shiny paint too.
Thanks for clarifying the year of the rear window change, I never knew when that actually was. Come to think of it, their werent many design changes after that. The switch panel was redesigned in the mid to late 70s and the wiring panels above the side windows changed in like 81(?) Otherwize, the wayne lifeguard only saw a slightly different dash in 90 and that was it. It is also interesting to note that the roof rail above the side windows began showing up in black around 1988 and was a standard wayne spec by 94. I wonder when the black powder coated sash became available, I have only seen three total with this option, and two were 95s and one was a 94.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/
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CrownBus1
Top Member

USA
633 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2005 :  9:16:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's a great looking Wayne!

Bus 1
1985 Crown
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  05:16:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really like the boxy looking Waynes of the 65-72 era. I rode on a few of them including my regular route bus of two years, a 1969 Wayne Ford. I especially like the look of that style Wayne on the 1965-66 GMC or Chevy chassis (as Jared's picture shows) and the 67-69 GMC chassis. Unfortunately my old school district only had Waynes of that era on either Ford or International chassis. Even a Dodge chassis looked decent on those old boxy Waynes...IMO.
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Jared
Top Member

USA
1865 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  09:27:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jared's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuperiorGMC1963

I really like the boxy looking Waynes of the 65-72 era. I rode on a few of them including my regular route bus of two years, a 1969 Wayne Ford. I especially like the look of that style Wayne on the 1965-66 GMC or Chevy chassis (as Jared's picture shows) and the 67-69 GMC chassis. Unfortunately my old school district only had Waynes of that era on either Ford or International chassis. Even a Dodge chassis looked decent on those old boxy Waynes...IMO.



I completely agree, the Wayne body accepts a boxier chassis cowl much nicer. I think thats why I am so fond of the 84+ gm chassis on the wayne body.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaredg21/sets/
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  09:34:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
I love that 1973 Wayne/IHC you have pictured, the first bus that was assigned to me when I started driving in 79 was a 73 Wayne/IHC, only differences were the mirror system, had the larger rear view mirrors and cross view mirrors on both corners. I'll never forget the interior with the bright red seats and "redish/brownish" interior color, not quite sure what that color was but it went well with the bright red seats.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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vaoverland
Advanced Member

USA
225 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  11:31:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit vaoverland's Homepage  Send vaoverland an AOL message  Send vaoverland a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The 1973 Wayne Lifeguard school bus pictured earlier in this thread was won by a driver from Goochland County, Virginia. The site appears to be the Virginia State Capitol Building. The gentleman handing her something is the late Jeff Davis, who handled Wayne for Baker Equipment Company for many, many years prior to his retirement in 1975.

Upon introducing the Lifeguard body, Wayne held a national contest for ideas to improve safety. Her winning idea was some kind of sound baffles inside the bus at the ceiling to help reduce the noise. While she won, nothing much came of her idea for a while, at least not until the the new noisier diesels came along. Many buses now have sound baffles in the form of fabric or perforated metal above the driver for just the purpose she suggested.

1973 was the first year for the lack of yellow between the larger side side windows and the last year for the fixed windows at the rear section. That makes them very easy to identify from the side.

Thanks for the memories.


Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/

Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA
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vaoverland
Advanced Member

USA
225 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  11:43:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit vaoverland's Homepage  Send vaoverland an AOL message  Send vaoverland a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding the exterior rear view mirrors on each side, Virginia state officials would not allow "West Coast" types, supported top and bottom, because they feared the bottom brackets would block forward visibility for the bus drivers. Supported only from the top, the Virginia mirrors (special order from the factories) (7x12 if I recall) shook so badly even on relatively smooth roads that the best you could hope for while moving was the general blurred image of a vehicle in the lane beside you. The state was still requiring them on conventionals well into the 1990s. I feel no nostalgia for those rotten old mirrors!

Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/

Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA
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thomas86_a
Top Member

USA
4407 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  2:44:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit thomas86_a's Homepage  Send thomas86_a an AOL message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vaoverland

Regarding the exterior rear view mirrors on each side, Virginia state officials would not allow "West Coast" types, supported top and bottom, because they feared the bottom brackets would block forward visibility for the bus drivers. Supported only from the top, the Virginia mirrors (special order from the factories) (7x12 if I recall) shook so badly even on relatively smooth roads that the best you could hope for while moving was the general blurred image of a vehicle in the lane beside you. The state was still requiring them on conventionals well into the 1990s. I feel no nostalgia for those rotten old mirrors!



Thanks for brining up the mirror issue, I've always wondered about those since I had seen them on older buses but not many in my area.

I had also remembered you mentioning the bus that was given away, nice to see the picture and the driver. I wonder where she is today, we can thank her for saving us from assisting us in reducing the noise inside from those stinky diesels.

If you have an International, you NEED customer service.
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IC
Top Member

USA
3413 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2005 :  5:00:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's interesting concerning the mounted from the top only mirrors. But on the Waynes ('88s & '89s) I've driven, they are very stout and don't shake at all. Our IH/Wards are a different story though....those mirrors shake like a dog sh1tt1ng peach seeds!
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scottyd
Advanced Member

USA
491 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2005 :  04:03:12 AM  Show Profile  Send scottyd a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for sharing the photos. That's in great condition for a classic.

Scott
Driving America's Future
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2005 :  11:24:06 AM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hi Ted -

Do you know which county the bus belonged to? (I cannot make out the first word).

You can definately tell it was a VA bus. Almost all of our buses of the 70's in Prince William had the "Stop State Law" marked on the front...and the turn signals were exactly as pictured. Only thing I did not see on VA buses were the body logos and also...I wonder what that black marking is on the bus (to the left of the lady's head), or is the bus # purposely blacked out?

"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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SuperiorGMC1963
Top Member

USA
1079 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2005 :  8:08:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MongoKen

Hi Ted -

Do you know which county the bus belonged to? (I cannot make out the first word).

You can definately tell it was a VA bus. Almost all of our buses of the 70's in Prince William had the "Stop State Law" marked on the front...and the turn signals were exactly as pictured. Only thing I did not see on VA buses were the body logos and also...I wonder what that black marking is on the bus (to the left of the lady's head), or is the bus # purposely blacked out?



The third post down from that photo 'vaoverland' (Mark) was kind enough to provide the details. I was in too much of a hurry to add any details.
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vaoverland
Advanced Member

USA
225 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2005 :  12:53:29 AM  Show Profile  Visit vaoverland's Homepage  Send vaoverland an AOL message  Send vaoverland a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
From the Wikipedia article on Wayne Corporations:

"Shortly after Lifeguard was introduced, Wayne held a nationwide contest soliciting ideas to improve school bus safety, with a new Lifeguard school bus as the grand prize. The winning entry was submitted by a school bus driver in Goochland County, Virginia, whose district received the new school bus. Her idea was to install sound baffles in the ceiling of school bus bodies to help reduce driver distraction. Compact forms of such equipment were later developed used by Wayne and other school bus manufacturers when diesel engines (and their greater noise) became commonplace in the 1980s."

I would add that fed regs required an 8" SCHOOL BUS front and rear around the end of 1973 or early 1974. This knocked the additional lettering stop state law off Virginia buses. There wasn't room on the front and even though it had been lower on the rear, Virginia liked the concept of uniformity for traffic appearance, same concept asd the yellow color, so that any driver, even from neighboring states or further, would subconciously be thinking SCHOOL BUS. Of course, so states had more, go team go, watch for children, stop on signal, etc. Anyway, it is easy to spot earlier Virginia school buses by the top support-only mirrors, the side reflectors higher than most states, the Budd (disc-type) wheels, and the sealed beam amber turning lights (the last, prior to 1982). Virginia also required 2 rear wraparound guard rails, which was unusual from most states.



Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/

Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA
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MongoKen
Senior Member

USA
147 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2005 :  6:00:49 PM  Show Profile  Send MongoKen an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hi Mark -

What you say makes perfect sense. I remember all the things you point out. I have one question though. Were crossview mirrors on VA buses standard on the driver side only? I noticed on almost all of our buses from the 70's that the right mirror bracket was always a different style vs the other side. Also, wasn't it interesting that VA required the traffic warning indicator lamps to be mounted on the right side of the dash, below the door handle (two red lamps horizontally or vertically that flashed and ticked in sequence with the warning lamps)...that was one other thing I just remembered.

Ken

"Superior Buses..A Legend of the Past"
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IC-RE
Top Member

USA
4117 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2005 :  7:27:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit IC-RE's Homepage  Reply with Quote
On wednesday I rode a 1988 GMC Wayne and just noticed after 11 years of riding them, that the warning light pad on the inside of the bus on the right with one light that flashes with the left lamp beeps each time, I was surprised! I do remember our 1970's Blue Bird Chevy's that clicked with the lights

bus 1980, a 2008 IC RE 300 for Fairfax County Public Schools, Fairfax, Virginia.
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vaoverland
Advanced Member

USA
225 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2005 :  10:12:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit vaoverland's Homepage  Send vaoverland an AOL message  Send vaoverland a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Reflections on crossover mirrors (no pun intended) on conventional (Type C) school buses: When I started driving in 1968, unless you counted the kids, and watched where each went, there were no mirrors on the front and hoods were so high, a good sized elementary student and a couple of his/her friends could be out of sight right in front of the bus. When you pulled away from a stop, it was hard to be sure. Now, every driver still must account for every child every time, a tremendous responsibility to be sure, but you have much better equipment to do it with.

Answering the questions about Virginia and the crossovers, per state specs, Virginia added the glass type convex on the left front fenders around 1970. No other exterior mirrors except the top supported side ones were allowed. We thought the convex crossover mirrors were a wonderful improvement. And, they were.

Around 1983-84, when the plastic-based large hemispherical types came out from Mirror-lite, (nicknamed "Dolly-Partons", they were about the size of 1/2 of a soccer ball), Virginia started with an additional one on the right front fender (where none had been allowed previously) and "Dolly Parton" heads on both sides on new buses (front fenders). In a one-time move, all school divisions were provided a kit of new D-P heads and brackets to retrofit older buses on the right front only, where there had been no mirror. However, the left fronts were changed at local discretion and expense only. Thus, older buses after 1984 or would probably have different brackets left and right, and often the older glass types on the left. The glass types offered less visibility and higher breakage rates, and gradually disappeared as they were replaced by D-P heads or the whole bus was retired and replaced. This took a while as some divisions occasionally kept buses as long as 18-20 years, average about 12-15 statewide at that time.

Today's crossover mirrors, which are more in size like a slice of a soccer ball than 1/2 of one, block less forward visibility and reflect sun and snow glare less than those big D-Ps did. However, I can tell you that many conscientious drivers back then were thrilled with the better visibility two crossover mirrors and the D-P heads offered in that "front of bus" danger zone.

Regarding the old Virginia 4-light red light systems, the motorized flasher motors and solenoid boards (tick-tock, etc.) were usually mounted on the inside firewall forward of the stepwell, so putting the pilot lights in the chassis dash area under the door control handles was logical and put the lights near the switches at the door controls. There was no such thing as a master switch on Virginia buses in those days, although most bus body circuits were isolated via solenoids from the battery and activated through the ignition switch when you started the bus.

All that began to change with the 1982 body specs, with the new exterior light fixtures (with plastic lenses), and by the time lighting systems were upgraded to 8 light in 1988, we have electronic motors, master switches, and a way to activate the warning lights upon approach without partially releasing the entrance door controls. Gone were the expensive color glass bulbs (amber 4" for front and rear turning, and red 7" headlight sized for 4-lite system). Also gone with the 82-88 transitioning was the old venerable tick-tock motor. They were noisy, but very reliable.

I believe that what caused Virginia to finally throw in the towel on the top-supported 7x12 side mirrors issue was the coming of semi-forward controls (IE Vista), transit style products, and retirement of some legendary powers and safety pioneers at the state level who, while undoubtedly well-intentioned and sincerely dedicated to school bus safety, were very cautious and sometimes a bit set in their ways and opinions. Also, I believe that school bus manufacturers have tried to standardize mirror systems to make engineering, testing, and product liability dollars go further.

It also would seem that a lot of the equipment improvements I have just recalled were due to enhancements in the use of plastics and electronics.




Wayne's Lifeguard in 1973 was a safety design and building concept ahead of its time and regulation. I am proud to have helped bring over 2,000 of them into Virginia during my career. I know they saved some lives.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/WayneBusEnthusiasts/

Mark Fisher, semi-retired school bus driver, pupil transportation supervisor, contractor, and school bus body dealer, Williamsburg, VA

Edited by - vaoverland on 02/27/2005 11:28:27 PM
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TankStoner
Active Member

USA
26 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  03:10:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit TankStoner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bluebird 7

If i did this right, you should be looking at a 1964 IH/Wayne. It was in service in north east Pa. till about 1983. Just thought you all would like to see it.


I can't see the pic. Do you know what school district in Northeast PA it served because I live in Scranton, PA. and I always wanted to know what chassis/bodies the Scranton School District used in the 1960's and 1970's.

Edited by - TankStoner on 02/13/2006 04:36:04 AM
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TankStoner
Active Member

USA
26 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  03:20:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit TankStoner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 78fordwayne

OMG. I want one! Ive never seen a Wayne with that body style. Thanks for sharing that.

Watch the beginning of A Nightmare On Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge (for the IH Wayne) and "Duel" for the Dodge Wayne.
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